Project Gunrunner (Fast & Furious) Part II

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by onalandline, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Ayuh,.... Such as Dailykos, the Joyce foundation, 'n the Brady campaign,..??

    Ya,.... Right....

    Yer the 1 who needs to see the rest of the world,...
    Without yer rose colored glasses...
     
  2. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I would love to. However, much of today's MSM likes to ignore stories that paint the Obama Administration in a bad light.
     
  3. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    Ha. You're doing this backwards, friend. You're supposed to get information FIRST, and then form your negative impressions later. Not the other way around.

    When you ONLY get your information from sources that have agendas against our President, or whatever your criteria might be, then you are doomed to get a biased result. Simple. There are plenty of articles available in the mainstream press that show the President in an unfavorable light, and there are plenty of articles that explain gun control issues objectively. You're a smart person, I KNOW you can do this.
     
  4. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    Still trolling?????
     
  5. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Nope,... Just like in the other threads,...
    just stating the Facts as seen by Everybody but yerself...
     
  6. Clint Torres

    Clint Torres New Member

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    Lame ATF needs to take some lessons from the Mexican Policia and Federal on how to confiscate US made firearms.
     
  7. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I obtain a well-rounded wealth of information from many sources, and give each weight based on their bias. Our mainstream media, however, does seem to give Obama pass on many things, many of which they would have gone to town if it were Bush.

    It's not all just facts and figures, my friend. There is some opinion/speculation involved, some of which pans out, and some which does not. That's how it always has been.
     
  8. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Federal official in Arizona to plead the fifth and not answer questions on 'furious':

    The chief of the Criminal Division of the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Arizona is refusing to testify before Congress regarding Operation Fast and Furious, the federal gun-running scandal that sent U.S. weapons to Mexico.

    Patrick J. Cunningham informed the House Oversight Committee late Thursday through his attorney that he will use the Fifth Amendment protection.

    Cunningham was ordered Wednesday to appear before Chairman Darrell Issa and the House Oversight Committee regarding his role in the operation that sent more than 2,000 guns to the Sinaloa Cartel. Guns from the failed operation were found at the murder scene of Border Agent Brian Terry.

    The letter from Cunningham’s Washington DC attorney stunned congressional staff. Last week, Cunningham, the second highest ranking U.S. Attorney in Arizona, was scheduled to appear before Issa‘s committee voluntarily. Then, he declined and Issa issued a subpoena.

    Cunningham is represented by Tobin Romero of Williams and Connolly who is a specialist in white collar crime. In the letter, he suggests witnesses from the Department of Justice in Washington, who have spoken in support of Attorney General Eric Holder, are wrong or lying.

    “Department of Justice officials have reported to the Committee that my client relayed inaccurate information to the Department upon which it relied in preparing its initial response to Congress. If, as you claim, Department officials have blamed my client, they have blamed him unfairly,” the letter to Issa says.

    Romero claims Cunningham did nothing wrong and acted in good faith, but the Department of Justice in Washington is making him the fall guy, claiming he failed to accurately provide the Oversight Committee with information on the execution of Fast and Furious.

    "To avoid needless preparation by the Committee and its staff for a deposition next week, I am writing to advise you that my client is going to assert his constitutional privilege not to be compelled to be a witness against himself." Romero told Issa.

    This schism is the first big break in what has been a unified front in the government’s defense of itself in the gun-running scandal. Cunningham claims he is a victim of a conflict between two branches of government and will not be compelled to be a witnesses against himself, and make a statement that could be later used by a grand jury or special prosecutor to indict him on criminal charges.

    Source
     
  9. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    You're still doing this backwards, friend. You're supposed to get information FIRST, and then form your negative impressions later. Not the other way around.





    You're missing something very important to this. While you (and all of us) are free to "speculate" on any topic we choose, we ARE of course in a forum that allows others to question your reasoning and factual evidence that went into those "speculations". That's the way it's always been. In your own case, your speculations have fallen far short in this regard.
     
  10. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your dream of an Obama Utopia is falling short too, my friend.

    Most rational folks can see the obvious scandal F&F is turing out to be.
     
  11. Hate_bs

    Hate_bs New Member

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    What Holder said today:

    "Walking guns is unacceptable"

    What Holder was thinking:

    "No one is going to be punished"
     
  12. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    Straw Man fallacy, sorry.






    Appeal to Belief fallacy, sorry again. It's only ironic that you would mention "rational" while using your fallacies.
     
  13. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    Your user name is not consistent with that little piece of bs. How the heck can you claim to know what he was thinking?
     
  14. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Holder and the DOJ have not been cooperating fully. In fact, they have been stalling, and even one top DOJ official has plead the 5th.

    What does that say to a rational thinker?
     
  15. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    They do protect their own, but I will reserve judgement until I know the facts. There is a lot we don't know, but we will......... we always do.


    So, what does this tell me? It tells me I cannot read Holder's mind. It's strange the other member said he could. Your defense of him implies you agree with him. Mind readers, eh? Not exactly rational thought, sorry.
     
  16. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't be silly.

    Stalling, pleading the 5th, moving around personnel, and denying and redacting FOIA requests are not exactly the actions of innocent people.
     
  17. DaveInFL

    DaveInFL Banned

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    This is not a court of law, the burden of proof is not to prove beyond a doubt.

    People in public office are given responsibility to act in the best interest of the citizens and to uphold the law. When they do not cooperate, when they attempt to hide behind procedure and try to meet the letter of the law and not the intent (as in providing documents to Congress), when they throw up false barriers and try to hide in the shadows, then they have violated the trust with the citizens and should be removed.

    The appearance of dishonesty is enough.

    If you have ever worked in or with the govt, then you know there is a paper trail. Somewhere there is a budget document with an approval signature for F&F. Somewhere there are field reports detailing sales of F&F guns and agents actions, those reports were summarized and presented to upper management types, who summarized and presented to their upper management. There are distribution lists on those reports, and minutes of meetings with attendees.

    If Holder wanted to, he could go through the paper trail in a week and identify the F&F chain of command. But he doesn't want to because he has something to hide.
     
  18. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is true. If there was nothing to hide, and the DOJ/ATF were not stalling, then it would be over already.
     
  19. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    So, you can read Holder's mind?
     
  20. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    You act as if it is unusual for the different branches of our government to contest the other's authority. That is precisely what our Framers intended, friend. This will work its way out without your help.
     
  21. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not me. But I can read between the lines.
     
  22. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    The 2A is under attack :???:
     
    onalandline and (deleted member) like this.
  23. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    If Obama gets second term look for Draconian California/Israel /UK style firearm restrictions in a State near you...:omg:
     
  24. DaveInFL

    DaveInFL Banned

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    That's not what is happening. Holder is claiming he is cooperating, he is not claiming executive privilege although he made that attempt last year and got ridiculed for it.

    The Framers wanted checks and balances to keep each branch from overstepping its bounds, not so one branch could hide its illegal activity.
     
  25. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    His Chicago General is already working on Illinois.
     

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