I Like the IRS! Where did they do anything wrong ?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by protectionist, May 21, 2013.

  1. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

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    It is looking like YOUR understanding is wrong.

    To qualify for a 501(c)(4) tax exemption, the organization must show a "social welfare" function. You are ignoring this. I ask you again. How does the Tea Party qualify as a "social welfare" organization, in your view ?
     
  2. Nunya D.

    Nunya D. Well-Known Member

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    Supporting or fighting against certain issues or proposed laws falls into the catagory of "social welfare"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_welfare_function
     
  3. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

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    The IRS does NOT HAVE TO ask EVERY group applying for tax exempt status the questions they apparently only asked of conservative groups, if and whenever those other groups demonstrate a clear connection to a function of social welfare. If you are a paramedic and are administering first aid, do you attend to those people without any injuries, or the ones who are injured ?
     
  4. Goodoledays

    Goodoledays New Member

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    :roflol:How about you trying to watch a little news on TV. And make sure you turn up the volume. It really helps. And make sure you watch the news thats not left leaning. Remember they don't like putting out info thats against them.
     
  5. Goodoledays

    Goodoledays New Member

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    :yawn:Not supprising. Remember Ubama said he didn't hear of it either. Sort of runs in the family.
     
  6. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

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    I watch Fox News primarily, but I still don't see how the IRS thing is a scandal. Last I heard, the Tea Party groups were getting their 501c4 status granted to them. If that's true, THAT ought to be the scandal maybe ? Or if anyone wants to show how the TP should qualify for 501c4 (with a social welfare function), let's hear it.
     
  7. Goodoledays

    Goodoledays New Member

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    :clapping:I know what he's talking about. You know why? Because Ive been watching it day by day on the news. Why don't you give it a try instead of wishing it weren't true.
     
  8. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

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    Family ? HA HA. I have no connection to Obama. I doubt if anyone in this forum has criticized him more mercilessly that I have.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/polit...-obama-administration-muslim-brotherhood.html

    http://www.politicalforum.com/curre...starting-new-term-killing-jobs-americans.html

    http://www.politicalforum.com/elections-campaigns/273791-i-voted-today-virgil-goode.html
     
  9. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

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    Sez you. :disbelief: Got anything better than that flimsy thing ? I can think of one way the TP could qualify with a social welfare function (a REAL one), and you ought to know what it is, because I've already mentioned it in this thread.
     
  10. Nunya D.

    Nunya D. Well-Known Member

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    Sez the US Government.
     
  11. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

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    Lots of people here are claimng they've watched the news, and know what they're talking about. BUT, when asked, they say nothing (Including YOU, so far)

    Maybe you'd like to answer my questions Mr, Been Watching. Did the IRS grant 501c4 to the Tea party? What % of groups targeted by the IRS were Conservative ? And yeah, I could ask my TV set. Or this computer. But right now, I'm asking YOU, Goodoledays. Or do you prefer to (as I mentioned) "say nothing".

    Sez what ? Who ? And do you know the one way the TP could qualify with a social welfare function (a REAL one) ? The one I already mentioned.
     
  12. goober

    goober New Member

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    And you think Hank Johnson is stupid.....why would anyone suspect that a group called the "Teaparty Patriots for Liberty" might be a group whose primary function was to influence the outcome of elections?
    Why would someone assume that they were political, and not dedicated to a social welfare goal such as promoting mushroom farming in the inner city?
    Or lobbying for bike paths?

    Because that's why the law was changed to allow these groups to engage in political activity, originally groups lost their tax exempt status if they engaged in ANY political activity.
    So the "Bicycles for a Better Planet" group wasn't allowed to speak at a town meeting on behalf of more bike paths on town land.

    The real question here is how come CrossroadsGPS, that spends 99.5% of it's time and money on influencing the outcome of elections have 501(c)(4) status and why does Priorities USA have tax exempt status?

    Why do the big boys skip, and the law only gets enforced on the little groups?
     
  13. AceFrehley

    AceFrehley New Member

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    You are all over the map. However, thank you for pointing out that these groups have the freedom to be political, and therefore the extra scrutiny improper.

    Your concession is noted.
     
  14. Nunya D.

    Nunya D. Well-Known Member

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    "Social welfare" is not only about taking money from one group and giving it to those deemed "needy". "Social welfare" is about those items that benefit society as a whole. Some laws benefit a portion of society at the expense of others. Defending or opposing certain issues that shape our society and influences it's welfare. That shaping may be a positive thing or a negative thing depending on an individual viewpoint.

    Defending or opposing issues is "social welfare". That is why "Organizing for America" qualifies. As long as they do not specifically SUPPORT any candidate or party, they qualify as a 501(c)4 organization, even if they are political.
     
  15. protectionist

    protectionist Banned

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    1. The way the Tea Party could qualify for a "social welfare" function is by working toward the elimination of racial discrimination in race-based affirmative action programs, which clearly racially discriminate against Whites. It helps if you read the thread before entering.

    2. NO. Merely opposing or defending an issue is NOT "social welfare". If the notion you present were true, there would be no need for the term "social welfare", because everything would qualify. Thanks for the good laugh. :giggle:
     
  16. darckriver

    darckriver New Member Past Donor

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    Thanks for that very unbiased assessment. :wink: Actually, neither you nor I (nor anyone else) have enough the details of every politically focused organization to be able to arrive at an objective count as to which political perspective represents the greatest offender of 501c intentions. I guess we know which perspective is more eager to use the tax exempt application for their own partisan purposes. Though I'm certainly not naive enough to think that the Right wouldn't try the same.
     
  17. JoeSixpack

    JoeSixpack New Member

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    The problem is the dictionary has a definition, the courts have a definition, and the service (IRS) has their own definition. When the government and politics especially get involved any definition can become arbitrary, and/or useless when attempting to go by the actual meaning. IOW according to the IRS political oriented groups are considered awareness groups for the community, and by doing that it leaves the door wide open for other groups that wouldn't normally be considered social welfare organizations to acquire tax exempt status as well.

    This explains why the government is so fickle and therefore an incubator for corruption.

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/eotopicg81.pdf
     
  18. goober

    goober New Member

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    The IRS is charged with determining whether an organization is primarily a social welfare organization or primarily a political organization, that is a job that congress gave to the IRS. So you're statement that scrutiny is improper ranks up there with Hank Johnson's statement that he was afraid the island might capsize.
     
  19. Nunya D.

    Nunya D. Well-Known Member

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    Racial discrimination or the elimination of such IS an issue...more often a political one at that. How is that any different than supporting or opposing say, gun control, or environmental policies?

    EVERY social science expert would disagree with you.

    I normally hate using hypothetical, but here goes:

    Say I start an organization called "Tea Party member against the carbon tax". The intent is for my organization to solely oppose the placement of carbon taxes on businesses. While my organization might be made up of Tea Party members, it is focused on an issue and not on a certain politician or political party.....and whether you agree with carbon taxes or not.
     
  20. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The process that is followed goes something like this. The applicant has something like 90 days to receive a response from the IRS. If the IRS determines that it does not have enough information yet then it puts the applicant on hold. Once the process goes over a certain period of time, a red flag is generated automatically EACH MONTH that goes to management. This means that there were hundreds of red flags generated each month that went above the people being blamed for this. With the checks and balances the IRS has, there is no way that management in Washington did not know of this.

    Now, an application delayed is worse than the application denied because if it were denied then the applicant could file for a review but by delaying these for years basically took them out of the system for that amount of time. This is the abuse that is being talked about. Sure, once they got caught they approved the applications, but who knows how long this would have gone on if the Inspector General had not written it up.
     
  21. akphidelt2007

    akphidelt2007 New Member Past Donor

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    The only thing they have done wrong "so far" is they made a documented list of keywords for employees to look for to go under more scrutiny from a team of specialist. Other than that, they didn't do anything illegal. Just frowned upon to make a list... they still would have put those Tea Party groups for more review regardless of the list or not. So it's really a non-issue. And the fact not a single Tea Party has been denied so far and the only group that was denied was a progressive group in Maine... this is even more of a non-issue than I thought.

    The biggest issue I would say, is how did these Tea Party groups get approved for tax exemptions when many of them have clearly displayed they are a group with political intentions and not "social welfare" groups. The Tea Party groups are the ones that should be under investigation.
     
  22. JoeSixpack

    JoeSixpack New Member

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    If you read the link I posted above it explains why there are so many accepted definitions for 'social welfare'. 1 general dictionary definition, the courts definition and the service (the IRS) definition. They must remain a no profitable organization no matter what their sole purpose is.

    For example, the regulations under section 501(c)(3) contain a prohibition against substantially engaging in legislative activities. No similar type of provision is contained in section 501(c)(4), and a 501(c)(4) organization may engage in germane legislative activities as its sole activity. See Rev. Rul. 67-293, 1967-2
    C.B.185, and discussion in 1978 EOATRI Textbook. Neither does the statute expressly prohibit participation in political campaigns on behalf of a candidate, as
    does section 501(c)(3).
     
  23. Piscivorous

    Piscivorous New Member

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    Which is why they are so dense. They fail to realize that if this becomes precedent they'll be targeted some day. I summed it up in another thread. For every Justinian or Trajan there is a Caligula or Commodus.
     
  24. AlphaOmega

    AlphaOmega Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You said....and I quote "What mainly bothers me is all these super-rich greed freaks who engage in tax dodging, like with fake addresses in the Cayman Islands. I's like to see the IRS tax their butts off."
    Unless your next post excoriates John Kerry for doing EXACTLY what you said mainly bothers you, then I have proven you are hypocrite guided by political ideology. I mean you said what mainly bothers you, now all of a sudden when a lefty is caught doing it you suddenly don't remember feeling bothered?!
    If you cant handle excoriating one tax dodger why would I give you a list?
     
  25. Yosh Shmenge

    Yosh Shmenge New Member

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    What if the list of keywords that caused the IRS to go full attack mode contained words or phrases like progressive, organize and social justice? Would that be okay with you?
    I doubt it.

    Somehow you've rationalized things inside your own skull to the degree that this is all merely about compiling a list. As if targeting Obama's foes for special harassment and illegal intrusive abuses of power by the IRS is no more extraordinary than making a grocery list.

    Why? Tell me why wanting smaller more responsive government makes one an enemy of the state?

    http://www.humanevents.com/2013/05/14/more-irs-abuses-of-power-against-conservative-groups/
    You are so far off base you are out of the ball park. The IRS released confidential information and gave it to Obama operatives. The IRS made
    tax status dependent on answering illegal questions designed to reveal information not required to obtain tax exempt status. Multiple audits
    and investigations were used as a tool to silence critics, etc.
    You frankly are extremely ill informed, and that's putting it mildly.

    You don't seem to understand the process."Social welfare" can take many forms.
     

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