How can God die?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by OJLeb, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

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    My testimony is no evidence and worth nothing to anyone but myself and my creator. I have no intention of proving my experience with divine intervention to anyone. :floating:
     
  2. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

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    He didn't. Jesus was fully human and fully God. His human body died and he resurrected himself. So God never died.
     
  3. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    Then you should have a chapter in the Bible describing your experience.
     
  4. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

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    No. All you have to do my brother is ask your creator to reveal himself to you. Be patient.
     
  5. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    But its the sole that dies, not the body.

    Does the Bible explain how God died and came back to life?

    Or did Jesus PBUH switch to human on the Cross?

    I get the feeling you don't think I am serious?
     
  6. OJLeb

    OJLeb New Member

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    I don't think it works like that.

    If I saw God, I would die, according to the Bible, anybody that looks at Gods face dies, right.

    You are now trying to avoid the topic.
     
  7. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

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    Who told you the soul dies? Our bodies die, the soul lives forever.

    It is our limited human mind thinking that God has to switch. He is everywhere at once. God came down to earth as man - Jesus Christ - while still in heaven. He died on the cross for us, he forced himself to experience humanity, to experience our pain. But God never died.

    I believe you are 100% sincere, looking for answers. I pray you'll find them.
     
  8. RiseAgainst

    RiseAgainst Banned

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    I never looked God in the face. If I had to guess a number, I experienced 0.00000001% of the potency of heaven and 0.000001% of the potency of Hell.
     
  9. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    God cannot die. Jesus DIED, poked with a holes, really bad, nasty death.

    Jesus was flesh, it says it right there in the freaking Gospel, he was a man who pooped like men, made be for one purpose the Word of God. God was not killed by humans. Jesus said to go into a closet to pray, not to pray to be seen and judged of men for purposes of finding and killing apostates who rise too slowly, and told us to pray to OUR FATHER. That is OUR FATHER, every human's father:

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 6:5-13&version=KJV

    It just so happens Jesus was God's only begotten son, made be, as God can make be whatever he wants and you cannot stop him. Christians do not worship Jesus, or Mary, or pray to any of them, we pray toward no idols, because Jesus said pray to OUR FATHER.

    "36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

    Jesus said he did not know when Judgment day would come, because why?

    He was not God. It was like real time stuff going on, like tweeting or something, little human brains cannot hold God.

    At that point where Jesus on the Cross cried out about God forsaking him, was probably when God cut the tweet connection.

    Whether or not you can help an old lady cross the street has nothing to do with whether some idiot cannot read the Latin Vulgate, and thinks Jesus said he was his Father. How silly, can't be your own father. And then we have thousands of years of some false prophet screaming may God destroy them [9.30], because of bad reading comprehension and illiteracy.
     
  10. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't know anything about God, but I know that only a belief in the resurrection could have made the Church grow like a mushroom, and I think I know that crucified people seldom got up and walked about afterwards. In Jesus' case, however, it was a rushed job, according to the gospels, so my own notion is that he survived, and that's what did it. The 'Trinity' notion is something to do with Greek philosophy, I think, and the fact that they were throwing divinity about at the time like confetti (fancy God Julius Murderous Caesar?). Autres temps, autres moeurs, mates!
     
  11. dadoalex

    dadoalex Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think I have the answer.....

    "Once upon a time...

    {Insert Bible/Tor-rah/Koran of choice here}

    And they lived happily ever after."
     
  12. RedWolf

    RedWolf Well-Known Member

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    It was the body that died. Not the spirit.
     
  13. stig42

    stig42 New Member

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    um you can kill a body Christians some of them anyway believe in souls and spiritual beings that exist as part of the body but can also exist apart from it i would guess god would be a soul with lots o magic powers

    so god could die but to at least some christens death is not the destruction of the self and not as a big deal

    now some one having to have their body die so god won’t have to be mad at us sound like bull(*)(*)(*)(*) to me it’s not like believing in Jesus means you have acted other then you have so baptism the entire atonement thing ya i call bull(*)(*)(*)(*)

    well ok it may not be bull(*)(*)(*)(*) god could just be compelled to act hat way by its nature but its senseless to me

    ya it seems like a weird thing for god to do i agree but like iv said anything a powerful enough god dose doesn’t make sense to me

    Humiliation and caring about insults makes sense to us weak humans were vulnerable a god could get away not caring about what nay one else thinks ( a horrifying thought for me ) because no one has the power to do anything it doesn’t want done.

    I think the biblical and Koranic gods are despicable in there story’s sometimes but if they actually exist i have not humbled them no matter how many people i can get to agree with me unless they feel the same way about themselves

    again it doesn’t make sense to me either and the moral judgments of the gods still seem arbitrary

    but i don’t see any inconsistency in god incarnating and dying and coming back to a body
     
  14. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    Yes, Jesus is fully God and fully man.
     
  15. stig42

    stig42 New Member

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    or maybe god is all knowing and as such never had to create things separately form itself at all

    and were all just characters in gods imagination ( a perfect imagination that’s contains every detail and is just as good as something separate )

    God being Jesus might just be god inserting its main personality into a character in its own story

    not Christian theology as far as i know though and not what I think is the case either but a daydream universe would make it easy for god to do that maybe god just enjoys a good Immersive drama
     
  16. bee

    bee New Member

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    The closest I can come to the truth is that a good prophet named Jesus Christ died on a cross truly believing that His death was necessary to save humans from a fiery eternity. Being crucified could not have been a pleasant experience and the words He spoke while dying had to be a mixture of perceived truth, frightened delusion, and finally acceptance. It was not a pleasant death and there was certainly a time when he realized that the God he so truly believed in was not going to save Him.

    This is all I can believe because there's nothing else believable. There's the plausible part... His birth, His life, His missions, His crucifixion, and His death which was witnessed by many. Then there's the implausible part which includes the resurrection, the ascension, the trinity, and the rest of the story. How many actually witnessed these events?

    I grew up, worked, and performed in the church for years doing all of it behind a wall of doubt while pretending it was true. I told kids their pets went to heaven and told seniors that they would be reunited with their loved ones. I lit candles and told them what they wanted to hear so they would feel good. And they did. People who attend church look to the priest to provide simple meanings and avoid the inconsistencies noted in the bible.

    You asked why people believe it so much and the answer is because they have a need to believe that death is not final. That instead of their bodies and souls decomposing to their most basic elements and eventually scatter to the universe itself, their souls will be saved by a supreme being where they will be reunited with their pets and loved ones.

    I know what will happen to my body at death and what it will be a million years from now but I honestly don't know anything more than that. However, I do know that the bible God is just a story that people want to believe and the only explanations you will get here, or in any other forum, are just perceived truths that have no solid meaning and will be interpreted by a number of people to mean a number of things. You're going to have to decide which one you want to believe.

    I wish I had an honest answer for you.

    Bee
     
    Diuretic and (deleted member) like this.
  17. dattaswami

    dattaswami New Member

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    For that you must understand what is meant by 'Human Incarnation of God'. If you know about the concept of human incarnation, then all your questions can be easily answered.

    Para Brahman is the absolute GOd who is having neither shape or with shape. He is unimaginable. Such GOd created this entire world for His own entertainment. He cannot be defined by worldly logic. He is invisible and cannot be seen directly. If you want to see Him then the creation has to disappear in such case you also will disappear with the creation since you are a created item of GOD only. Therefore, one can never see the unimaginable absolute God. But when such God comes to us in human form we can see Him. We can see the 'mediated God'.

    God comes in human form looking like us. God comes for preaching wonderful divine knowledge to uplift us so that we will become near and dear to Him. Therefore the first step in the spirituality is to identify GOd in human form then learn the divine knowledge from Him. After that participate in His mission of divine knowledge propagation for uplift ment of all the people.


    When God comes to this world in human form, He has ENTERED the particular person (like Jesus, Krishna etc), like current entering a wire. Thus God IS IN THE FLESH not become FLESH. REMEMBER THIS POINT. The medium is died. NOt God. When Jesus died means His body only destroyed here in this world, the individual soul in Him goes to upper world and sits in the lap of God. God was present in Jesus all the time when He was ALIVE IN THIS WORLD. It is the God component which spoke wonderful divine knowledge through the mouth of Jesus. God and soul. God + Soul= Human incarnation of God.

    God has no death or birth. Such God comes in human form by entering a most deserving devotee on this earth time to time for preaching wonderful divine knowledge and for uplift His real devotees and to carry their sins upon His body, for this specific purpose God comes in human form.

    God is unimaginable and hence, cannot be even imagined by even sharp intelligence. Therefore, there is no possibility of any kind of interaction with God. God knows all of us, but, we can never know God. Hence, the interaction with unimaginable God is one sided only. But, we like to have an interaction, which is in both sides. We like to know, see, talk, touch and live with God. We like to serve God because service is the practical proof of love or devotion to God. For this purpose, God comes down in the same medium in which we exist.

    Hence, God comes in human form. If God comes in the form of an inert object, our service becomes impossible. For the sake of inert objects, He has to come in the inert form. But, the inert objects do not interact at all. If He comes down as a bird or animal, the birds and animals may interact and the human beings cannot interact. In such case, you cannot talk with God since you cannot talk with a bird or animal. We cannot clarify our doubts with God in such case.

    If God comes down in the energetic form, we cannot touch God and cannot live with Him for a long time. Therefore, the human form is the best suited to the human beings. The energetic form of God is relevant to the departed souls existing in the energetic bodies in the upper worlds. But, the human form of God is not easily available. Even if it is easily available, most of the human beings suffer with ego and jealousy towards a co-human form. Any human being does not agree the greatness of a co-human being.

    Therefore, the human incarnation interacts with those few selected devotees only, who conquered the ego and jealousy. For other human beings, the human incarnation behaves like a co-human being only following the usual social norms. Krishna behaved like a human being only with all the people and behaved like God for His close devotees. Therefore, God comes down for the needy only.
     
  18. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    That brings up an interesting question. Can God change his mind?
     
  19. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Beyond me - but we certainly can, I think.
     
  20. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    With respect that assumes too many things. One is that God has a mind.
     
  21. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    That is a silly question.....the Bible tells us that He can and has. However, when God makes a promise that if we do this thing or that thing, He will do a certain thing; He will do exactly what He said He will do.
     
  22. Diuretic

    Diuretic Well-Known Member

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    I can't perceive of an omniscient being having to second-guess.
     
  23. charliedk

    charliedk New Member Past Donor

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    how can something that doesn't exist die??

    if yur faith is keeping it alive that's something different..
    anyway, who cares..satan is waiting for us all..
    I'm more concerned if the pizza delivery guy will make it in 30 minutes..
     
  24. BFSmith@764

    BFSmith@764 Banned

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    It’s not about God second guessing.....it’s about man's free will and God's mercy.

    Are you familiar to the account in the Bible about the City of Nineveh; in which God told Jonah to tell the people that what He was going to do to them because of their wickedness? God changed His mind about destroying that City because the people repented. God is a merciful God.....in fact, that was the reason why Jonah tried to run away from God.....because Jonah knew that if the people repented after he gave them God's message, God would not do what He said He was going to do to them. Jonah was upset that God did not destroy the City of Nineveh.

    Below is a summary of the account.

    Jonah 1:1-3 (NASB95)
    1 The word of the LORD came to Jonah the son of Amittai saying,
    2 "Arise, go to Nineveh the great city and cry against it, for their wickedness has come up before Me."
    3 But Jonah rose up to flee to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD. So he went down to Joppa, found a ship which was going to Tarshish, paid the fare and went down into it to go with them to Tarshish from the presence of the LORD.

    Jonah 3:1-4 (NASB95)
    1 Now the word of the LORD came to Jonah the second time, saying,
    2 "Arise, go to Nineveh the great city and proclaim to it the proclamation which I am going to tell you."
    3 So Jonah arose and went to Nineveh according to the word of the LORD. Now Nineveh was an exceedingly great city, a three days' walk.
    4 Then Jonah began to go through the city one day's walk; and he cried out and said, "Yet forty days and Nineveh will be overthrown."

    Jonah 3:5-10 (NASB95)
    5 Then the people of Nineveh believed in God; and they called a fast and put on sackcloth from the greatest to the least of them.
    6 When the word reached the king of Nineveh, he arose from his throne, laid aside his robe from him, covered himself with sackcloth and sat on the ashes.
    7 He issued a proclamation and it said, "In Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles: Do not let man, beast, herd, or flock taste a thing. Do not let them eat or drink water.
    8 "But both man and beast must be covered with sackcloth; and let men call on God earnestly that each may turn from his wicked way and from the violence which is in his hands.
    9 "Who knows, God may turn and relent and withdraw His burning anger so that we will not perish."
    10 When God saw their deeds, that they turned from their wicked way, then God relented concerning the calamity which He had declared He would bring upon them. And He did not do it.
    Jonah 4:1-4 (NASB95)
    1 But it greatly displeased Jonah and he became angry.
    2 He prayed to the LORD and said, "Please LORD, was not this what I said while I was still in my own country? Therefore in order to forestall this I fled to Tarshish, for I knew that You are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, and one who relents concerning calamity.
    3 "Therefore now, O LORD, please take my life from me, for death is better to me than life."
    4 The LORD said, "Do you have good reason to be angry?"

    Jonah 4:5-11 (NASB95)
    5 Then Jonah went out from the city and sat east of it. There he made a shelter for himself and sat under it in the shade until he could see what would happen in the city.
    6 So the LORD God appointed a plant and it grew up over Jonah to be a shade over his head to deliver him from his discomfort. And Jonah was extremely happy about the plant.
    7 But God appointed a worm when dawn came the next day and it attacked the plant and it withered.
    8 When the sun came up God appointed a scorching east wind, and the sun beat down on Jonah's head so that he became faint and begged with all his soul to die, saying, "Death is better to me than life."
    9 Then God said to Jonah, "Do you have good reason to be angry about the plant?" And he said, "I have good reason to be angry, even to death."
    10 Then the LORD said, "You had compassion on the plant for which you did not work and which you did not cause to grow, which came up overnight and perished overnight.
    11 "Should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals? "
     
  25. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    You don't know?

    I think it goes to the whole concept of God created humankind in His image.

    Did God change his mind with regard to Sodom, didn't Abraham barter with God?

    If you think God cannot change his mind then you would obviously have no problem with perfect books claiming to be God's word, with all kinds of instructions, orders, laws, and a final prophet or final word on things.

    "[5.68] Say: O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people."

    Then we have the different instruction sets, with one set, the Torah and the Gospel, showing God changes his mind, and the final set with no possibility of God changing his mind. So we are back to the question, did God die and become something that could not change his mind?
     

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