date rape is a fake crime....

Discussion in 'Women's Rights' started by JavisBeason, Jun 24, 2011.

  1. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good point...Science shows that even small amounts of alcohol can impair judgement, lower inhibition and generally make for a relaxing time which is why folks like to drink in the first place.

    I, being a man, have never enjoyed being with an obviously seriously drunk woman and I think most men feel the same way. At that point I think most men would just make sure she gets home safe. The stereotypical "I'll get her drunk and take advantage of her" is largely a myth.

    I think you are indicative of most folks. Most women AND men know when enough is enough and don't drink to the point of being incapacitated.
    .
    I agree.....However, a man has to be very careful. Even if she drops her drawers and starts doing the 'horizontal bop' with him she can still claim rape and if it is a 'he-said/she-said' situation..'she' will usually be given preference by the courts.
     
  2. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    And I agree with that 100%......and it simply illustrates that a Feminist Movement is no longer a necessity in countries in which women have equality under the law but has now become a vehicle for making the rights of women superior to that of men.

    As a woman, I wasn't enamoured of living in a patriarchal society.but as a woman, the only thing as bad would be to live in the matriarchal society we are becoming in the UK. What is so wrong with an equal society?
     
  3. axialturban

    axialturban Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear... birds and bees. Men seek sex more then women, and its just a reality that women get raped for real all the time..... and so the grey area you've defined is a resultant reality. MAN UP and live with it - what it means is the man has to be responsible (yes its possible) for not having sex with a women who might turn around and say she didnt want it.... whether she genuinely didnt really intend to have sex because she was too drunk, or is simply changing her mind to get you into trouble.. IS IRRELEVANT to the outcome. That by definition is a clear rule in the rule book of being a drunk.
     
  4. RPA1

    RPA1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Men are always responsible because only men can initiate the actual sex act. (Putting penis in vagina or any other female orifice). However women become responsible with the acceptance of said penis into said orifice(s) for whatever involuntary contraction takes place. Just saying no at that point is akin to creating a trap.

    Which is exactly why 'date rape' is a female cop-out.
     
  5. freehope.

    freehope. New Member

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    Not that its fair per se, but I think the reason that even if both are drunk the guy is guilty is that most guys are stronger than girls. Therefore, if a guy doesn't want to have sex, he can physically push her away in 9/10 cases. If a guy really wants to have sex, and pressures a girl, when drunk she probably isn't going to make a good decision i.e refuse him or be able to fully fight back if he forces himself on her.
     
  6. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    So how come the bloke can't use the excuse of making a bad decision because he was too drunk to make a good one as a cast-iron defence against a charge of rape, the way that a woman can use it to scream rape when she changes her mind having had consensual sex? :???:
     
  7. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Except, the claim isn't that there was force but that the woman was drunk and therefore didn't make an informed decision. Therefore, the man being stronger, even if true, is irrelevant.

    No, men are no more "helpless" than women but they do tend to let the little head think for the big head.

    And, woman have a lot more apologists than do men.

    I wonder what would happen if a man called the police, crying, and said, "I got really drunk last night and a woman took advantage of me." Who thinks the police would march off to interrogate the woman? Who thinks the police would be rolling on the floor laughing?

    A man who worked for me was called by a woman who worked for him. It was well below zero and she said the furnace in her mobile home had gone out and she was freezing and she asked him to help him light the furnace. He went over and she opened the door wearing a sheer, shortie, nightgown.

    When I asked if the sheer, shortie, nightgown didn't seem to be a clue to her not freezing he got a blank look and said, "I didn't think of that." No, women can't take advantage. Not ever.
     
  8. Wolverine

    Wolverine New Member Past Donor

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    I have been plastered before.

    I still knew what was right wrong, and what I did and did not want to do.

    So no, I don't buy into any excuse that starts with "I was so drunk...".
     
  9. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    My point is that if you can hold a man responsible for acts done while he was drunk, a woman should also be held responsible for acts done while she was drunk. Force is a different matter, drunk or not.
     
  10. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    What if the only act carried out by the woman whilst drunk was passing out behind the sofa?

    Does that make her fair game?
     
  11. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    Nope.....but if she passed out behind the sofa with a man, particularly a stranger she picked up in a bar, in the room.........it makes her a drunk, completely irresponsible female who is lucky enough to have laws which protect her from the consequences of her own idiocy.
     
  12. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    No. However, if she is drunk and conscious and says "yes" it shouldn't be considered rape. The two circumstances are very different.
     
  13. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    Never mind about all that...sheesh.

    If anyone had sex with her it would rape, yes?
     
  14. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    Yes they are. Your example isn't rape.
     
  15. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    Yep.......unfortunately, complete idiocy and the deliberate effort to make yourself unable to be responsible for your actions does have consequences, does not?

    What I can't understand, in these days of "equality" is why men do not have an equivalent "get out of being responsible for yourself" clause in law.
     
  16. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    Oh, blah....people do stupid things sometimes, certainly. It's only when those stupid things cause harm to other people that it's a problem.


    They do.

    I assure if someone were to have sex with you whilst you were passed out on the floor, then it would be rape.
     
  17. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    Excuse me........but can you point me to where I said it wasn't rape?
     
  18. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    You said men don't have an equivalent get out of jail free card, which taken with the former part of your response to my post implies you don't consider the action rape.
     
  19. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    So you don't read Yep as Yes in response to If anyone had sex with her it would [be] rape, yes?

    If you had actually bothered to read the whole thread...you wouldn't even have had to ask.

    And if you had actually bothered to read the whole thread, you wouldn't have made your erroneous assumption either.
     
  20. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but qualified with the later comment, which gives the impression you don't think it should be rape.

    If that isn't the impression you meant to give, then you should have just put "yes, certainly" and left it at that.

    I did read the whole thread, which is why I did need to ask.

    Once again, I did read the whole read, the title of which is: Date Rape is a fake crime.

    This is yours:

    What it says. Drunk to the point you are incapable of giving consent.

    Notjust drunk enough to lose your inhibitions and behave in a way you would not when sober.


    Well, good for you...and?

    Exactly.

    So what is your problem with the law?
     
  21. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    If you actually read what I say in the context of the posts to which I am replying, rather than quoting them out of any context...you would realise that my problem with the law is the female who wakes up in the morning after consensual sex.....and goes "Ooops..shouldn't have done that.....the boyfriend/husband/father/whoever isn't going to be a happy bunny".........and promptly screams rape and pleads being too drunk to have consented in the first place..and trashes the life of the poor bloke who was himself drunk enough not to remember that females don't have to be responsible for actions they think better about in the cold light of sobriety.
     
  22. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    But you are mistaken.

    You are getting angry for no reason.

    If a woman ( or man) agrees to have sex, even if their judgement is impaired due to intoxication, then it isn't rape.

    But if the person is intoxicated to the point they cannot agree to have sex, then it would be rape to go ahead and have sex with them.

    That is the law.
     
  23. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    But if the man is also as intoxicated as the woman, why is it a crime to have sex with the intoxicated woman who is too drunk to consent?
     
  24. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    If he's also too drunk to consent, then sex wouldn't take place.

    There'd just be two unconscious or semi conscious people lying flat out behind the sofa, so to speak.

    For sex to place, at least one of the people involved has to initiate it.

    If a man ( or woman) is physically capable of climbing on top of their victim and having sex with them, then they are sober enough to know what they are doing.
     
  25. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    I'm not angry.....I am exasperated at the inability you seem to have to read what has been written without passing it first through the filter of your on imagination/biases.

    The point I have been making all along is that in your first instance the law ALSO says that if a female wakes up in the morning and realises she has made a complete arse of herself, she can and too often will, cry rape.

    There are many sick and twisted females in this world.....and many men on the sex offenders register who should not be there and have had their lives blighted by women who are no longer obliged to take responsibility for their own actions!

    Your last point is quite correct, and I have never denied that if the person is intoxicated to the point they cannot agree to have sex, then it would be rape.

    However, even here, we have a situation where it is the woman who has the last word as to how intoxicated too intoxicated is..and there are times when too intoxicated does not mean incapable of giving consent at all...........but incapable of stopping yourself choosing to do something you'd never have done if you were sober.
     

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