I will now prove atheists are illogical Part 2.

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by jedimiller, Mar 25, 2012.

  1. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    There is no mathematical basis to observed phenomena. There is only rigorous documentation that can verify that these things are or are not happening.

    You really need to use the right tool for the right job, and trying to reduce miraculous healing to a set of mathematical numbers is profoundly missing the point.

    Its like telling a lover, "I Love You," by saying, "1+1=2, babe!"

    There is no judgement in whether or not something is happening, there is certainly bias in whether or not someone wants to acknoweldge what is happening.
     
  2. fishmatter

    fishmatter New Member

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    I think smarter people than me are doing work that might shed light on the issue. Maybe not. I think it's worth a shot. The efficacy of prayer seems easier to measure. But it's not the same as arbitrarily deciding to use 1+1=2 in that context. That's just a random string of sounds designed to make a point. I would hope that if someone decided to look into miracle claims they would be a little more rigorous, setting up the parameters beforehand attempting to control as many variables as possible. It does sound tough but this is far from my field of expertise.
     
  3. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    THey did ...

    http://christiancadre.blogspot.com/2009/05/scientifically-documented-miracles.html

    http://www.doxa.ws/other/Miracles.html

    You are aware that the beautification process in the Catholic church, for millenia now, actually had to go out, and to the best of their admitted human capability, had to document the miracles of people raised to Sainthood?

    Do you really think that you ar ethe first person in millenia to approach the problem set of miracles from a 'logical' standpoint?

    Now that we are beyond that, perhaps we can examine what it means when we KNOW miracles have been happening for thousands of years? Nothing? Well, I guess that is an opinion.
     
  4. fishmatter

    fishmatter New Member

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    Of course I'm aware the church investigates potential saints. But they also, to this day, maintain that demonic possession occurs. They hardly seem unbiased and it's clearly in their interest to keep the flow of saints coming through.

    But on the other hand it's not nothing. Have they investigated the miracle claims of other religions, or encouraged outside observers to shadow their procedures? How much of it takes place in the open for others to see and understand the process? And how do they correct for what I imagine is a very real effect: if you employ people to find miracles to attribute to potential saints, that's what they're going to try to do or risk losing their jobs, right?

    But who knows? Maybe they have witnessed some crazy stuff. And maybe the reason scientists never seem able to get even a glimpse of anything miraculous is the one you gave - that these things aren't well-measured by science.

    I guess, based on the discussion we've been having and your difficulty understanding why the experiment (which you didn't propose, I remember) was doomed to fail regardless of the findings, how you misinterpreted it repeatedly as my calling people a bunch of liars, and so on. I feel like either you don't understand the scientific method or you're deeply suspicious of it. So when you say you "know" something about miracles having taken place I wonder if that knowledge is based on the as firm a foundation as I would want were I to make the claim.
     
  5. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    So, the Catholic Church postulates both God and Demons and finds evidence for both, yet your hyposthesis, having checked the veracity of neither is that the one cancels out the other.

    Brother, please take a look at the thread title.
     
  6. revol

    revol New Member

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    The Catholic church can't postulate their a$$e$ from their elbows, so really?
     
  7. fishmatter

    fishmatter New Member

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    I'm beginning to think you don't even bother to read what I've written. Ready my third paragraph. I'm hardly making an absolute claim that they're all snake oil salesmen. Do you, on the other hand, disagree that it's in their interests to keep finding miracles? That seems obvious, regardless of whether or not it's ever colored their perception of things.
     
  8. Prof_Sarcastic

    Prof_Sarcastic New Member

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    I have to say I'm interested in this evidence of the existence of Demons.
     
  9. fishmatter

    fishmatter New Member

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    You can't handle the truth.
     

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