Should mentally disturbed people be able to buy guns?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Kode, Feb 16, 2017.

  1. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hey there. Sure I can try to explain my choice of weapon.

    An ar15 is typically chambered in 223/556, not 762.

    My reasoning is as follows: in a stressful situation, a long gun is much easier to control and hit your target. Shaky hands make hitting a target difficult with a handgun so you have to compensate for that with lots of training.

    A long gun also has less felt recoil, better optics options, and is generally must faster for target acquisition.

    In our families tests, in non-stressful situations, the ar15 is hands down better for my wife and kids to shoot. They can get more rounds on target faster with the rifle than the handgun.

    You may not initally believe this, but the best round when it comes to a trade-off between penetration and over-penetration, is a 223 varmint round. These rounds will penetrate and do a lot of damage, but they fully fragment into pieces after going through just a few pieces of plywood/drywall. These rounds penetrate far less than handgun ammo or buckshot (that is effective at actually stopping an attacker, bird shot is not)

    Your 000 buck has huge over penetration. It can go through every wall in your house and exit the opposite side of the structure unless it contacts something pretty solid. Your bird shot is not going to stop the threat.

    Also I hope you're not saying you don't really need to aim with buckshot. I'm very familiar with 410 shotguns, it was my first hunting firearm.

    The other thing is that most home invasions consist of multiple attackers. I think I'm going to want more shots than your typical revolver.
     
  2. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    And that is the problem. Can you be a danger to yourself and other IF you have guns in your possession and are mentally ill? Most will say yes. Can you be mentally ill and not be a danger to yourself if those guns are removed. I would have to say yes.
     
  3. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Ayuh,.... 'n once yer adjudicated as insane, you won't be allowed to buy or possess a gun,...
     
  4. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    But that could be a temporary adjudication. Of course due process should take place and you should have the right to make your case before a judge. But a psychiatrist should be able to file a case that you are unsafe to own guns at this time
     
  5. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    This pertains to the matter regarding new rules implemented for social security recipients, correct? Not being able to comprehend complex government forms is not a legitimate example of being mentally disturbed. Nor is needing payments sent to someone else for a variety of reasons.

    There is nothing wrong with prohibiting firearms to individuals who are truly mentally disturbed. However there is a process involved for making such a determination, and due process for the accused. A simple reclassification of what amounts to being mentally disturbed offers no due process.
     
  6. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    A claim that ultimately means nothing. Politicians seeking to further restrict firearms ownership claim to own firearms as well, in an effort to suggest that they are not the enemy.

    First and foremost, the AR-15 is in no way a so-called assault rifle. It is nothing more than a semi-automatic firearm, largely no different from any other semi-automatic that has been freely available for the last one hundred years. Semi-automatic rifles were marketed towards hunters and sportsmen first, long before any military regarded them as a viable option.

    In the city of Nice, in the nation of France, one person operating a motor vehicle managed to kill eighty six individuals, and injure another four hundred and thirty four individuals in a span of less than five minutes. No firearms were involved, only one motor vehicle. That is a significantly higher number of victims than any mass shooting in the united states, where firearms are indeed involved. This would suggest motor vehicles are far more dangerous than any firearm ever could be, since it would name multiple mass shootings to equal the same number of dead and injured.

    - - - Updated - - -

    At the time of the ratification of the second amendment, the mentally disturbed were locked up in asylums, never to be released into society again, or otherwise outright killed.
     
  7. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    While not the addressed member, the above question can still be addressed.

    First and foremost, a rifle of any configuration is insufficient when facing a tank, thus making the above hyperbole.

    Second, compared to other firearms on the private market, the AR-15 is among the best available for matters of home defense. Lightweight build, mild recoil, proven reliability, adequate magazine capacity, significant accuracy, simplicity of function, very easy to customize, and quality ammunition has been proven to penetrate less than handgun and shotgun rounds.

    If it were not suitable for use in the home environment, police officers would not utilize similar platforms when entering buildings.

    The above round is most common in rifles such as the AK-47, not the AR-15.

    Bird shot is inadequate for defensive purposes, to the point of being useless. Former vice president Dick Cheney shot the individual Harry Whittington in the face with a load of bird shot, but he did not die as a result.
     
  8. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

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    It's first and foremost an assault rifle.


    That is the modified, semi-automatic AR-15-style rifle that is marketed to the public. Pretty soon you'll be telling me a BAR isn't a fully automatic rifle.


    The AR-15 was first a military weapon with selective-fire capability. It is a "relative" of the M16 and AK-47. It was developed after a more compact version of the AR-10 was requested. The publicly-available version lacks the selective-fire capability and is strictly semi- automatic and is correctly referred to as an AR-15-style rifle. It is popular because the .223 cartridge, when fired, packs a minor "kick" making rapid-firing possible with greater accuracy than some other semi-automatics that provide a greater kick (recoil).



    Yes and mass quantities of people have been killed by other methods including bombs and poisons. Your point? Is it "ban all or ban none"?
     
  9. polski

    polski Active Member

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    You are correct. What I like about my weapon is the shot selection that a .410 round offers.
    If someone breaks into my home, bird shot is a good first round choice. There's 5 rounds left of mix & match.
    If I am unable to get a second round off, then you are correct.
     
  10. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Why would bird shot even be in the rotation to begin with? From a basic, legal standpoint it simply makes no sense. Warning shots are generally not legal to engage in, and the discharge of a firearm involves deadly force regardless of what ammunition if selected, or whether or not the person that is shot dies as a result.
     
  11. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which other natural rights do people with disease lose?
     
  12. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Pray tell how so?

    And it is the only version that is available to the public, thus meaning it is not what is legally defined as being an assault rifle.

    The browning automatic rifle is not being discussed presently.

    Is that relevant? Prior to the AR-15 prototype, the united state military and various other military forces around the world had access to machine guns, both full and sub, that were fully automatic. Is the ability to switch between semi automatic and full automatic significant?

    Is this not largely a matter of semantics? The AR-15 prototype designation ceased existence once the platform was reclassified as the M16. The designation fell into disuse and irrelevancy, and could thus be applied to whatever firearm someone wished to apply it to.

    Lack of significant recoil is but only one reason for the popularity of the AR-15 rifle. Today it is available in a great many caliber and configurations, including several modern calibers that are comparable to calibers that were utilized in the hunting of buffalo in the nineteenth century. Calibers such as the .458 SOCOM, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf.

    The point is to keep perspective on what is important. The implement utilized in murdering others is of less importance than the fact that lives were lost, because someone believed they were justified in killing others for reasons that only they understood.
     
  13. WAN

    WAN Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I know this isn't directed at me, but: I personally feel that if one bans only guns but ignores other things that are also used to kill people, he is being logically inconsistent.
     
  14. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Their right to freedom. They can be held against their will
     
  15. usfan

    usfan Banned

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    Well, i think the governor is a fine HD weapon. Many people like the taurus judge, which is the same cartridge(s). IMO, there is no 'best' weapon.. some might be better in some circumstances, not in others. Too many variables to be dogmatic, but since when has that ever stopped anyone? :D

    Loaded with good defensive loads, the 410 is a formidable cartridge. It may not pack the punch of a 12 ga, but it has a lot more than a 9mm, & it has a bit of spread. Don't let anyone diss that firearm.. if you are familiar with it, & can handle it properly & safely, it will be the right tool for multiple situations. The 45colt shell is no slouch, either. I even modified my taurus judge to take 45acp, which i believe the governor does from the factory.. i just checked..yes, it does, with 6 shot moon clips. IMO, the governor is much better than the taurus 5 shot version.
    [​IMG]

    I've got this on order... mossberg shockwave. I think it will be a good HD firearm, & i have lots of them. But i'm primarily an aficionado shooter, not too worried about home invasions in small town Arizona.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Even with all of the research done on the part of myself to become adequately informed about matters pertaining to firearms and their legality in the united states, it is admitted that there is still much that is presently unknown. The above is an example of that. Is that a purpose built sawed off shotgun from the factory? Or is it custom made?
     
  17. thinkitout

    thinkitout Well-Known Member

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    I don't favor transgender bathrooms, and I feel that the principles involved in the two scenarios are quite similar; however, the potential for far more drastic consequences exists when mentally unbalanced individuals are permitted access to firearms. IMO, ALL mass shooters are mentally ill.

    Although it doesn't seem that logic has been an important factor in our lawmaking process lately, issuance of drivers' licenses to the blind still isn't permissible in ANY state.
     
  18. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In most states this requires evidence signed off on by a judge and a medical professional that the person poses a current risk to themselves or others. That loss of right is conditional to current state of mind, not historical state of mind unless they have been convicted of an actual crime. Mental illness is not a crime, nor are all types of mental illness predictive of violent behavior.
     
  19. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  20. WAN

    WAN Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Here in British Columbia, Canada, they require that two medical doctors be present to certify someone, and they also have to fill out certificates at various intervals of time. The patient also has the right to a review panel, which has the power to de-certify him.
     
  21. BillRM

    BillRM Well-Known Member

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    As we have a mentally disturbed gentleman in control of the US military including seven thousands nuclear warheads so we have more problems then such people owning firearms.
     
  22. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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  23. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    Depends on the manner of being "mentally disturbed". That's too broad of a category to make a blanket judgment on.

    But for those with mental problems where there is cause to suspect violence was occur, prohibit gun sales. Won't stop every nut, but it will stop more than not doing anything at all. And sure, the nuts could always grab another object to use as a weapon, but that's not an argument for making it easy to obtain firearms. Just because other weapons can still be obtained does not equal guns needing to be just as easy to get.
     
  24. BillRM

    BillRM Well-Known Member

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    There are over 300 millions firearms in private hands in the US IE more then one firearm per adult so how in the hell are you going to stop someone from gaining a firearm even if you could shut down gun shops sales to him at least directly.

    Take a trip to the dark net and see the firepower you can buy for that matter using bitcoins.
     
  25. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Exactly. And it can be the same with gun ownership. Due process must apply
     

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