Are the disabled Britain's new slaves?

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by alexa, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    This is a very worrying article. Only yesterday I was reading research which showed how papers had over the past couple of years increasingly portrayed the disabled as work shy and scroungers. Now the government is thinking of making people, even those with a terminal illness but with more than 6 months to live, which they can never be certain of, work for an unlimited time without wages or have their welfare withdrawn.

    So it looks like not only are they likely to have their health made worse but there will not be proper paid jobs for the people joining the unemployment queues each week. I am dumbfounded. I never thought I would be living in such a a society.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/feb/16/disabled-unpaid-work-benefit-cuts
     
  2. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2011
    Messages:
    11,044
    Likes Received:
    138
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It almost seems like the government is purposely trying to drive down wages and make Britons work harder!

    Here is something to consider: how is it that labour does not have enough influence to fight for higher wages and better working conditions, but is able to bring in so many asylum seekers and give them so many benefits? One would be inclined to think that the conservatives are actually letting labour bring in more migrants, and are even enthusiastic about it! Sure, they say they are against it to appeal to their voters. But their businesses are benefitting be access to cheaper labor, and these desperate workers will not complain about low wages or poor working conditions. Meanwhile, so many Britons are unemployed, hte young cannot find decent jobs, and the government is gradually cutting unemployment benefits even more.
     
  3. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,296
    Likes Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    63
    They are voluntary schemes .VOLUNTARY
    They only last 8 weeks . EIGHT WEEKS
    One week to opt out , if you wish .

    Nonsense Topic .
     
  4. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I do not know what you are talking about but this thread is on the guardian article on compulsory work of indefinite length for people with disabilities including those who are terminally ill but believed to have more than 6 months to live.

    That article is dated the 16th February.

    Here you can find their subsequent article of 17th February where they have


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2012/feb/17/disabled-unpaid-work-benefit-cuts-documents

    I suggest you have a look at the documents and read both the Guardian's articles before coming on with arrogant unsupported remarks.
     
  5. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,296
    Likes Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Nothing compulsory for genuine claimants .
    nonsense Topic .
     
  6. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,760
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Apart from being outrageous, this is extremely worrying.

    Inexperienced job centre staff will be dealing with clients who could experience a psychotic episode at any time brought about by the stress this policy will undoubtedly cause.
     
  7. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,296
    Likes Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    63
    No problem . Send them on holiday to Spain for a fortnight , and three months free therapy to avoid the fear of work .
    Bless the little stressed out Bar Stewards .
     
  8. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Good point but the thing is it isn't just to do with people suffering disability because of mental illness. That particular issue has been a problem for some time. About a year or so ago the guardian had an article about Job Centre staff being worried because they were suddenly being trained in how to recognise and deal with potential suicides!!

    Also about a year ago we had a program in Scotland, not shown in England for some reason, on the new medical tests brought in by Labour. They were finding about 90% of the people fit for work although I think about 50% of them were not fit on appeal. However they get commission for finding them fit for work. A few of the examiners complained about being harassed for finding too many people ill. One woman was found fit for work and died six weeks later of terminal cancer which had not previously been diagnosed.

    Now that time they did not find out the woman was ill because she did not tick off enough boxes but now we are dealing with people who are known to be suffering from cancer

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/terminally-ill-face-being-forced-690027

    or look at the exploitation going on here, though on being caught, Tesco did wriggle out of it

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/jan/17/britain-plans-major-health-care-reform/

    This is just exploitation of everyone. Tescos gets cheap staff, people get more ill and other people who need a job don't get one.

    There also is no time limit for the time the disabled must work as you can see at the end of the second Guardian link I gave and above in the Mirror quote.

    I saw another documentary last year where they were asking the disabled to go for pre work training. This young man who could hardly walk and hold things was giving it a go but he had a great deal of trouble doing anything and I cannot see him ever being a fit employee though he went through all the hoops and no doubt they will find some ghastly job for him to try without pay one day - I could not see him getting a paid one.

    The most vulnerable in society are paying for the Global crash while those responsible are still living the high life.

    People who are fit and need work are losing out on the chance of a paid job.

    I am seriously concerned for the future.
     
  9. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,760
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    63
    It is the mentally ill who are suffering under the new rules more than any other disabled person, because their illness is "invisible".

    The new work capability tests introduced by Labour were bad enough, but at least they only applied to new claimants.
     
  10. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,296
    Likes Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Ah yes . Those Invisible stresses brought about by the thought of work and missing the Jeremy Kyle show .
    And what about the loss of sofa sleeping time? So unfair .
    Anybody claiming to have mental illness can have that illness officially confirmed and evaluated .If a Doctor can find no trace of something , it does not exist .
    It's like you telling me that we have full employment because I cannot see the Invisible ones !!!!!!!
     
  11. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I understand your concerns for the mentally ill and they do indeed have problems as I have frequently heard, usually through the Guardian, job centre staff themselves saying so. However they are not the only people in danger. It is all people with disability including people who are terminally ill.

    It is the responsibility of Atos to find people capable for work. This includes finding any areas where they are capable of work. It is a way to get all but the totally bedridden or totally insane off incapacity and onto the lower job seekers allowance imo.

    If you know anybody who needs help with the issues, this is a good site.

    http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/


    I appreciate that it will be an enormous stress to those who have been ill for some time and now need to face this ordeal.

    Labour also did a pilot for people who had been on for some time... and they were found to be outrageously unfair. The conservatives were saying they were going to correct this but it looks like how they have corrected it is simply to say, if you can move, off incapacity, onto job seekers and just to prove we are not being unfair by putting people not fit to work on job seekers we will force you to work unpaid for as long as we say and if you do not do that we will remove even your job seekers allowance and make you starve to death.
     
  12. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    How little you know and what a sad person you are. The 'Medicals' which decide whether people are fit for work have nothing to do with psychiatrists or other specialists examining and deciding whether the people are fit for work. They are simply based on a serious of questions. A mentally ill person is not deemed fit for work by a psychiatrist just like the woman I mentioned who was deemed fit for work 6 weeks before she died was not deemed fit for work by an expert in her illness or even her own doctor.

    All these medicals are are a list of boxes to be checked and the personal opinion of the interviewer. Atos get paid for finding people fit for work. There is simply no way that you can get a fair assessment under such a situation.

    With people with psychiatric problems any one other than a psychiatrist who knows the person is unlikely to be able to give a proper evaluation. The next best would be an evaluation by a psychiatrist who does not know the person but if you had read the Guardian's article you would have discovered that decisions on these people's lives are not being made by experts in their disability.

    Good god, you watch Jeremy Kyle do you?
     
  13. spt5

    spt5 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,265
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Why does this work have to be unpaid?

    And is it possible to develop a mental illness as a result of a stressful job, before losing that job? And then, will the ex-employee have to go back to work but work for free this time?

    What am I missing?
     
  14. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,760
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Yes, there are plenty of horror stories out there, but it's the mentally ill who are targeted the most because they can be physically fit.

    In everyone's opinion. The staff are given a £5,000 bonus for every person they take off incapacity benefit.

    Not exactly. It was coalition government who extended the new rules to all claimants.

    Next year all DLA claimants will be reassessed.
     
  15. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,296
    Likes Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Love it occasionally .
    Nothing better than watching the underbelly to make you feel even happier with your own lot .
    90% of them are out of work and have psychiatric problems .
    Some solid , regular hard work is exactly what they need . Instead of thinking about themselves and their aches and pains all day .

    We don't need " fair " assessments .
    We just want to know if they can do a job . They can discuss their mental problems with other people after work .

    No shirkers on the good ship Lollypop , thank you .
     
  16. Viv

    Viv Banned by Request

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    8,174
    Likes Received:
    174
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Scum. Why don't you give some of them a decent job, if you're so feckin productive by your account? Go on. Generate some wealth and justify your existence.

    When I say scum, I don't mean the genuinely needy unemployed or disabled, some of whom may have worked and paid into the system all their previous lives and not being spongers by habit are the least equipped to negotiate their way through this crap at the worst possible time of their lives, when...they need help.

    If that is your opinion, even of terminally ill cancer patients 6 weeks from death, how on earth can you look at yourself in the mirror? Have you ever seen that disease at work?

    This "government" is despicable in how it treats anyone with less than a million GBP to talk for them, but in a long line of despicable inhuman acts, this stands tall. Surely it can't stand for long.
     
  17. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,296
    Likes Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I wondered how long it would be before we got the hysterical knee jerk reaction and the emotive Cancer word .
    And then for reasons beyond even my brilliance you decide that I can cure the whole lot of the unfortunate and unworthy .
    Such praise .
    Why should I employ the left overs and the least talented ?
    Do you imagine I have either of the words Martyr , or , Mug , printed on my forehead ?
    I go for the best workers -- which lately means the Polish and Czechs .
    If a person has an incapacity and is fortunate enough to be in a State that gives them money because of it , the least effort of token gratitude is to be able to reasonably prove their incapacity is legitimate .
    And don't embarrass yourself by lecturing me about Cancer . I am such a sufferer and my mother died of Ovarian Cancer 8 years ago .
    Now , what was that you were saying about Scum ?
     
  18. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Ok, I suggest you have a look at the requirements for people with disability before you start making your judgement on a tv show which you would need a mental health assessment for watching.

    Just have a look at the kind of needs a person must have to get disability benefits before you want to be so demeaning to the most vulnerable in society

    http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index...abled.htm#benefits_for_people_who_cannot_work

    I suspect you are right wing.

    http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WhatIsLeftOrRightWing

    sorry about your Mum. Ovarian cancer often is not detected till late but just imagine if your Mum had had say breast cancer which can be very successfully treated nowadays. You can imagine one of two things. First she has gone through original treatment, say surgery, radiation and chemo but has not recovered within a prescribed time. Under these new regulations she could be forced to do unpaid work when she had not recovered her health and people do vary on how quickly they recover. This would result in her likely taking a lot longer to recover and maybe not managing the work so losing her benefit.

    Another thing you could imagine is that Mum has initial breast caner treatment goes into recovery and then has a relapse which is terminal. This can take a few years and also be exceedingly painful. I knew a woman who had been given early retirement a couple or so years before and was desperately ill. She got a letter for a work assessment. Thankfully her MacMillan nurse contacted them and put and end to that.

    Or if you genuinely have cancer yourself, it could be you.

    This is an insane right wing attempt to bring us back to Dickens time.

    I agree with Vic that it likely will not last long.
     
  19. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    That of course is the question and I think tells the story. At a guess it is some kind of experiment. Under new rules the unemployed who do not find work within a set period can be forced to do a period of unpaid work. I think it is about a month. It is very definitely a fixed term....

    however for those who are disabled, it would appear that the length of time they can be forced to work unpaid is elastic - could go on and on.

    At a guess this is where the experiment is. They quite simply do not know whether and to what extent people could be capable of work so they want to try out and see what happens.

    The other end of it is as I put in earlier you have companies like Tesco trying to take advantage of this by employing someone full time permanent, although they later retracted that it was permanent, for simply expenses.

    http://righttowork.org.uk/2012/02/say-no-to-forced-work-with-no-pay/

    their argument could be that these disabled people will be so incapable of the work they are doing, that they need so much support to be able to work, there is no money left to pay them.

    It seems to be both an exploitation and an experiment on the disabled of Britain.

    :laughing: you never know! My daughter was telling me that at work they have new rules that they must give a job to a disabled person with less ability in preference to a person with no disability who has better qualifications. :shock:

    So they will allow disabled people to be paid. They are just determined that they will work one way or the other.
     
  20. Viv

    Viv Banned by Request

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    8,174
    Likes Received:
    174
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Scum do play the sympathy vote and you are by no means unique in having experienced near fatal illness, nor in nursing both parents at home through terminal cancer.

    And when your mother was in that condition, would you have sent her out to work 6 weeks before the end? Do you think even if she looked physically fit, that she was mentally fit to be deprived of support 6 weeks before her death?

    This is not knee jerk. If that is what they are really doing, they are worse than the tyrants they claim to be opposing in other countries.

    As to disabled people, if they are all as safe as houses, why are they protesting in the street at the changes this horrible group of tyrants are imposing? It seems odd behaviour, under the circumstances.
     
  21. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,296
    Likes Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Lazy , work shy people who think the Sate owes them a living .
    Buoyed by hysterical softies who frighten and distress those who need help and care with nonsensical and hysterical clap trap .
    And it is so reassuring to have a Gov't that at long last balances the needs of the disadvantaged on one hand and also , at the same time , the need to crack down on the underbelly that attempts to defraud tax payers .
     
  22. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Of course those ******* hysterical MacMillan Nurses

    https://e-activist.com/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=70&ea.campaign.id=12513
     
  23. Viv

    Viv Banned by Request

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    8,174
    Likes Received:
    174
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Raymond you can crack down as much as you like, we all know the people who are intent on defrauding the system always find a way around it. It is their job.

    All the Tories are doing is wasting taxpayers money on yet another shove around which will not save a halfpenny of benefits paid because it is impossible to eradicate non-genuine claimants. It's something which will always exist and be factored into a system like that. Of course they must police it, but they are not going to eradicate it by this method.

    It is unacceptable to the public for people in this country to starve. If they insist on mistreating the defenceless and needy, they will go right back out of government and into waiting for another 20 years. They barely got in by the skin of their teeth this time.
     
  24. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    People power and shaming can work ;)

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/feb/21/tesco-paid-jobs-work-experience
     
  25. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,296
    Likes Received:
    115
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Smarmy Tesco currying favour with Daily Mail readers and bribing the Guardian to write undiluted PR on their behalf .
    What is the world coming to?
    The only good news is that there are only 76 ,000 people who pay to read that rag and one is my disreputable Father who won't last much longer .
    75 ,999 to go .
     

Share This Page