US Engaging In Petrodollar Warfare?

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Woogs, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    48,288
    Likes Received:
    6,966
    Trophy Points:
    113
    America is a super power. Its what we do...
     
  2. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2011
    Messages:
    8,382
    Likes Received:
    2,556
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Are you fine with that?

    The fact is that other countries are finding ways around the dollar's dominance. No matter what strong arm tactics we use, the game is about up.
     
  3. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    48,288
    Likes Received:
    6,966
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yeah, for the most part Im down with that, Im an American.

    If you wanna blame someone, blame Obama. Hes the one who started an illegal war in Libya to kill its leader for oil....
     
  4. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2011
    Messages:
    24,183
    Likes Received:
    551
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Unfortunately, we've engaged in this sort of thing for a long time.

    It's just one of many reasons we need to get away from foreign oil and pay down our debts.
     
  5. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    62,072
    Likes Received:
    345
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I realize that it is detailed in the OP..

    http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topi...=471520&version=1&template_id=57&parent_id=56


    “Only two of the world’s oil exporters don’t have a dollar-pegged currency: Norway and Canada. Kuwait has already moved to a basket of currencies.”


    Bloom said that there was no reason why Qatar could not do the same as China which uses a basket but does not disclose what the basket contains.
     
  6. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2011
    Messages:
    8,382
    Likes Received:
    2,556
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The US buys most of its oil from Canada, so obviously the dollar is used for those transactions. I fail to see the relevance with what you posted.

    If the US doesn't allow the Keystone pipeline to be built, Canada will be looking for other markets, notably China. The question then would be what currency would be used.

    Canada and Norway are both NATO members, so I don't see it likely that they will do anything to upset the applecart.
     
  7. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    25,273
    Likes Received:
    1,633
    Trophy Points:
    113
    not war the President does not risk american lives in ground wars like the bush, he will either let israel bomb them or send air strikes in preferably with drones
     
  8. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    we are forced to kill, as our currency cannot compete on its own merits.

    We don't need oil, we need oil sold in dollars.
    That makes the holders of several hundred trillion dollars worth of interest rate swaps, and our bond selling government very happy.
     
  9. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    kill, kill, kill, .......it makes a liberal happy.
     
  10. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    62,072
    Likes Received:
    345
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Its not about Petrodollars...

    Look at Venezuela and why they created PetroCaribe... its effectively a barter system so they didn't have to eat the discount when the value of the dollar went south.

    Kuwait sells in a basket of currencies.. Qatar will likely follow.

    I realize that some have cooked up a whole war theory around the "petrodollar"... but..

    Iran's production is declining and their domestic consumption is increasing..

    They have little refinery capacity so they IMPORT $6 billion dollars a year in refined petroleum.. and they Iranians are subject to gas rationing.

    Plus.. they need $48 billion to develop South Pars..

    The petrodollar issue does NOT apply to Iran.. nor did it apply to Libya.
     
  11. zogtroll

    zogtroll New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not a lot. The US can't go to war with Russia and China without getting destroyed.
     
  12. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    48,288
    Likes Received:
    6,966
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So Afghanistan and Libya dont count?
     
  13. daddyofall

    daddyofall Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,579
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    38
    pardon my ignorance, but what would be the consequences to the US, and its allies (while we're at it), if the dollar ceased as the world's currency?
     
  14. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    48,288
    Likes Received:
    6,966
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well lotsa stuff....

    As it is the US dollar is the reserve currency. Governments hold it like it was gold.

    If the Dollar ceased to be the reserve currency of the world, all those dollar bills would come back to America and create inflation on a monstrous scale.

    The world economy would collapse with America, and youd be wiping your butt with 100 dollar bills cause it would be cheaper than buying toilet paper.
     
  15. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    62,072
    Likes Received:
    345
    Trophy Points:
    0
  16. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2010
    Messages:
    48,288
    Likes Received:
    6,966
    Trophy Points:
    113
  17. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    that's how you support $600T worth of derivatives, mostly interest rate swaps, and keep the USTreasury selling bonds.
     
  18. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    62,072
    Likes Received:
    345
    Trophy Points:
    0
    All the oil producers have gold sovereigns.. The gold dinar would absolutely make no difference at all.

    Trade in gold .. transporting gold would be cumbersome and take time which would sent interest rates on each transaction thru the roof.

    Khadafi is dead because the Libyan people hated him.. All the oil companies will soon be back at work in Libya..
     
  19. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    62,072
    Likes Received:
    345
    Trophy Points:
    0
    All the oil producers have gold sovereigns.. The gold dinar would absolutely make no difference at all.

    Trade in gold .. transporting gold would be cumbersome and take time which would sent interest rates on each transaction thru the roof.

    Khadafi is dead because the Libyan people hated him.. All the oil companies will soon be back at work in Libya..
     
  20. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    yeah, and got bombed by NATO.
     
  21. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2011
    Messages:
    8,382
    Likes Received:
    2,556
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Looks like Iran is getting some financial help.

    Under a trade agreement in 2007, China's state-owned oil giant, Sinopec, gained a 51 per cent stake in developing Iran's Yadavaran oil field, and Iran agreed to supply China with 150,000 barrels of oil a day for 25 years at market price.

    http://topics.scmp.com/news/iranshe...-Iran-drive-up-China-trade-tenfold-in-decade1
     
  22. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    62,072
    Likes Received:
    345
    Trophy Points:
    0
    150,000 barrels a day is not much oil..

    The Libyan gold dinar was another of Khadafi's hair-brained vanities.

    Libya imports 95% of it food... Can you imagine the problems inherent in trading in gold?

    The idea of settling trade accounts with shipments of bullion is an obsolete 19th-century idea.
     
  23. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2011
    Messages:
    8,382
    Likes Received:
    2,556
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I have looked and can't find any real evidence of Gadaffi's people hating him. The International Court first brought charges against him in March of this year. At that time, Libya was engaged in their 'rebellion' and the charges were related to that time frame.

    I have found some graphic videos that really don't prove much.

    Much as I don't like to use Wiki, they seem to have one of the few summaries that puts Gadaffi's crimes in context.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    From Wiki, on Gadaffi's charges against Gadaffi...

    The UN referred the claims of massacres of unarmed civilians to the International Criminal Court.[246] Among the crimes being investigated by the prosecution was whether Gaddafi purchased and authorized the use of Viagra-like drugs among soldiers for the purpose of raping women and instilling fear.[247] His government's heavy-handed approach to quelling the protests was characterized by the International Federation for Human Rights as a strategy of scorched earth. The acts of "indiscriminate killings of civilians" was charged as crimes against humanity, as defined in Article 7 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.[248] The validity of the rape allegations and claims of other abuses have been doubted by Amnesty International, which has not found evidence to back up the claims and notes that there are indications that on several occasions the rebels appeared to have knowingly made false claims or manufactured evidence.[245]

    The International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants on 27 June 2011 for Gaddafi, his son Saif al-Islam, and his brother-in-law Abdullah Senussi, head of state security for charges, concerning crimes against humanity.[1][249][250] According to Matt Steinglass of The Financial Times the charges call for Gaddafi, and his two co-conspirators, to "stand trial for the murder and persecution of demonstrators by Libyan security forces since the uprising based in the country’s east that began in February."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muammar_Gaddafi#International_Criminal_Court

    By what I bolded, you can see that the charges stem from the period of the 'revolution' and that Amnesty International found no credible evidence for these charges. If you check the link, you'll see the info is well-sourced.
     
  24. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2010
    Messages:
    62,072
    Likes Received:
    345
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I don't believe a word of that Viagra claim.. Khadafi was crazy.. He was crazy back in 1969.. Periodically he threatened to kill other Arab leaders over slights real or imagined.. MOSTLY imagined..
     
  25. Woogs

    Woogs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2011
    Messages:
    8,382
    Likes Received:
    2,556
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Regardless of your trying to dismiss the subject, the overthrow of Gadaffi is absurd and is the boldest step yet taken to protect our financial market.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Libya all about oil, or central banking?
    By Ellen Brown

    Several writers have noted the odd fact that the Libyan rebels took time out from their rebellion in March to create their own central bank - this before they even had a government. Robert Wenzel wrote in the Economic Policy Journal:

    I have never before heard of a central bank being created in just a matter of weeks out of a popular uprising. This suggests we have a bit more than a rag tag bunch of rebels running around and that there are some pretty sophisticated influences.

    Alex Newman wrote in the New American:

    In a statement released last week, the rebels reported on the results of a meeting held on March 19. Among other things, the supposed rag-tag revolutionaries announced the "[d]esignation of the Central Bank of Benghazi as a monetary authority competent in monetary policies in Libya and appointment of a Governor to the Central Bank of Libya, with a temporary headquarters in Benghazi."

    Newman quoted CNBC senior editor John Carney, who asked, "Is this the first time a revolutionary group has created a central bank while it is still in the midst of fighting the entrenched political power? It certainly seems to indicate how extraordinarily powerful central bankers have become in our era."

    Another anomaly involves the official justification for taking up arms against Libya. Supposedly it's about human rights violations, but the evidence is contradictory. According to an article on the Fox News website on February 28:

    As the United Nations works feverishly to condemn Libyan leader Muammar al-Qaddafi for cracking down on protesters, the body's Human Rights Council is poised to adopt a report chock-full of praise for Libya's human rights record.

    The review commends Libya for improving educational opportunities, for making human rights a "priority" and for bettering its "constitutional" framework. Several countries, including Iran, Venezuela, North Korea, and Saudi Arabia but also Canada, give Libya positive marks for the legal protections afforded to its citizens - who are now revolting against the regime and facing bloody reprisal.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Whatever might be said of Gaddafi's personal crimes, the Libyan people seem to be thriving. A delegation of medical professionals from Russia, Ukraine and Belarus wrote in an appeal to Russian President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin that after becoming acquainted with Libyan life, it was their view that in few nations did people live in such comfort:

    [Libyans] are entitled to free treatment, and their hospitals provide the best in the world of medical equipment. Education in Libya is free, capable young people have the opportunity to study abroad at government expense. When marrying, young couples receive 60,000 Libyan dinars (about 50,000 US dollars) of financial assistance. Non-interest state loans, and as practice shows, undated. Due to government subsidies the price of cars is much lower than in Europe, and they are affordable for every family. Gasoline and bread cost a penny, no taxes for those who are engaged in agriculture. The Libyan people are quiet and peaceful, are not inclined to drink, and are very religious.

    They maintained that the international community had been misinformed about the struggle against the regime. "Tell us," they said, "who would not like such a regime?"

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    There is much more to this article and it worth reading the whole thing. Here is the link.

    http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MD14Ak02.html
     

Share This Page