Debate: Israel – victim or aggressor?

Discussion in 'Debates & Contests' started by Margot, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    I have already proven that your beloved Dershowitz is a liar in a previous post but it looks like you prefer proven liars over real scholars like Finklestein.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/debat...srael-victim-aggressor-16.html#post1060939521

    That you would even try and big up a proven liar like Dershowitz just goes to show how desperate your non existent argument is.
     
  2. deanberryministries

    deanberryministries Banned

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  3. creation

    creation New Member

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    Yes, yes arabs attacked jews in Aden. Youve told us that over and over again. Now you tell us I approve of jews being killed etc etc. Lets hope you can do better.


    Ive said it over and over again , my response is this ; Aden is nowhere near Palestine and therefore your riposte to the statement on Israeli wars is irrelevant.

    What more do you want ?

    Um no ‘creation’ will suffice. Nothing more nothing less. Fair enough?


    Well now youve added a qualification you hadn’t mentioned earlier haven’t you?
    Thats the thing, if one cant mention things that are retaliations then we cant mention any attacks at all and instead we go right to the thing that first started it, the Zionist council in Berne deciding to create a jewish nation in Palestine.


    Well thank you. I suppose I should ask you not to post nonsense either but first please explain to us what your definition of nonsense is and how one may know your conception in advance that we may avoid any unpleasantness.



    Lol. No he proclaimed himself King of the Arab Countries, but received recognition as King of the Hejaz, not as King of the Arabs – Avi Shlaim, Israel and Palestine page 5 paragraph 4.


    Yes.

    Um no, not at all. In fact he was silent after the Balfour Declaration, greatly disturbed by it, and had a meeting with a a Commander Hogarth who reported that he then thought he had the UKs assurance that Jewish settlement in Palestine, which he respected as he respected the jewish people, would not conflict with Arab independence – therefore he was emphatically opposed to Zionism - Avi Shlaim, Israel and Palestine page 7 paragraph 1.



    Yes

    Yes. I suppose so.

    Well firstly, Faisal didn’t speak English in which the latter agreement with Weizmann you mention was written, the agreement was dependent on fulfilment of arab independence demands, further he was not in any sense representative of arabs, and lastly more credible arab opinion from the time such as the third Palestinian congress in Haifa 1920 flatly rejected both the declaration and Zionist goals.

    Um no , Transjordan was. The rest of mandate Palestine wasn’t.

    Well the last time in the UK case was ever since the civil war. Even before then people had political rights.

    Not true. Even the Ottoman empire took account of Palestinian wishes.
    Anyway, why don’t you think they knew about democracy and wanted at least something like that? They had numerous political parties and the third congress rejected British mode of government and demanded at least representation of their wishes. Whats ‘worse than silly’ about that?

    So?

    Um no, are you saying that if instead the Germans had halted before Stalingrad, set up fortifications and settled the land they would not be considered to be attacking Russia?

    You also seem to be now telling us that the Egyptian operation on Yom Kippur 1973 was a counter offensive rather than an attack. Is that correct?

    Indeed a counter offensive to conduct the defense of their lands which the germans by dint of thrusting deep into were attacking. When the Russians started this counter offensive were they no longer defending Russia?

    Aren’t you now referring to a previous war? That of 67? If so why then did you bring up the Yom Kippur war and tell us it was an Egyptian attack?

    But in any case now youve moved the goalposts again, what is offensive about mobilising troops in your own land? Whats offensive about asking UNEF that was deployed to protect Egypt to leave your own land? Why didn’t Israel then ask UNEF to deploy on its side? Why did Israel reject diplomacy over the Straits and what Israeli ship was ever stopped?

    AH so one can conduct a counter offensive and still be defending one’s land, even if one has invaded another country and especially when one is actually fighting on one’s own land. Like Egypt in 1973 – Point demonstrated.
     
  4. creation

    creation New Member

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    Lol

    Thats hilarious. Dershowitz was Michael Jackson's lawyer. A life long career in advocacy, if your going to credit lawyers as easily credible historians then really youre on a wobbly wicket.

    Would anyone like to see some of the debates between Finkelstein and Dershowitz? Funny stuff.
     
  5. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    Yes please.:eek:
     
  6. sablegsd

    sablegsd Banned

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    Victim. Absolutely.
     
  7. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    Maybe you would like to explain how a country with the most advanced military machine in the middle east is somehow a victim of guys who have home made rockets and AK47's? The Israeli military have managed to waste 20-30,000 civilians in Lebanon and Gaza in the past 30 years where as very few Israeli have actually died. Rocket attacks from Gaza have claimed 22 lives and one of those was a Thai national working in Israel. It is like saying that America was the victim in the Vietnam war,it is a joke not based on reality. It is just a blind faith in Israel whatever they do be it murder/torture/imprisonment without trial. Anyone who says that Israel is a victim has absolutely no moral compass at all.
     
  8. creation

    creation New Member

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    [ame="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1899267555870962994"]Finkelstein v. Dershowitz debate, Part 1[/ame]

    Watch NF expose Dershowitz right in his face. No wonder he got so mad and started this campaign against him..
     
  9. creation

    creation New Member

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    [ame="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=247803848714490692"]Finkelstein v. Dershowitz debate, Part 2[/ame]

    This is years old now. Im surprised you guys still try and defend a creep like Dershowitz, at least NF will stand by and debate everything he says, conducting no internal campaign against anyone and putting every correspondence on his website.
     
  10. creation

    creation New Member

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    Ill be happy to post more of this debate if there is more (Im not sure).

    Anyway check out how low this guy AD will go to make slander, in a letter to front page magazine he even goes so far as to tell us that NF thinks his own mother was a nazi collaborator;

    http://archive.frontpagemag.com/Printable.aspx?ArtId=8063

    Here is Norman's response;

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fC53_XvYXQ"]Norman Finkelstein on Alan Dershowitz - Georgetown University - YouTube[/ame]


    LOL, what if Dean Kagan's mother was a whore?.
     
  11. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    You have proven nothing. You post garbage and screem, "it's by a Political Science Professor" and we suppose to roll over??? Like I pointed out, Timothy Leary was a psychologist and a drug activist, and an author. Are we suppose to roll over every time we hear, "turn on, tune in, drop out"? If I had a dollar for every time I heard that during the 60's and 70's I could have retired in 75'.
     
  12. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    And who did DePaul side with?

    In 2007, after a highly publicized row between Finkelstein and a notable opponent of his, Alan Dershowitz, Finkelstein's tenure bid at DePaul was denied
     
  13. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    I am the one providing all the scholarly sources, you are the one trying to compare Finkelstein to Leary and that seems to be the only argument you have left which pretty much sums up that you have nothing left. Thanks
     
  14. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    Already covered this. Here you go just so you know who was in the right.

    The majority of the Political Science department at DePaul sided with Finkelstein .DePaul called him "a prolific scholar and an outstanding teacher".The American Association of University Professors also came down on Finkelsteins side.


    http://www.politicalforum.com/debat...srael-victim-aggressor-15.html#post1060936774
     
  15. creation

    creation New Member

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    Um DePaul's actual scholars sided with Finkelstein, as did the American association of university professors. As demonstrated.

    Cant you also respond to the post I made and you quoted?

    Do you think its ok to slander peoples parents?
     
  16. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    they are victims until the mid east becomes democratic, they cannot reason with such governments and must act accordingly
     
  17. creation

    creation New Member

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    Would a democratic middle east act any differently and why?

    For example, most of the democratic world around the world today supports the palestinians. So where does that leave you?
     
  18. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    That's why they kicked his butt out, right??
     
  19. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    {{""Democrats: Freedom For Poor Republicans: Freedom For Rich""}}

    I know where yopu can buy a manuer spreader cheap
     
  20. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    Well no that is not right. Looks like you do not even know what happen there. Finkelstein resigned.
     
  21. creation

    creation New Member

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    Uh yeah thats right, why dont you tell us more since youre so knowledgable?

    :clap:
     
  22. deanberryministries

    deanberryministries Banned

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    It'll always be a fact: The "jews" drew first blood in Palestine by poisoning the Pali water wells. Period.
     
  23. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    Only a 1000 a year??? Hey, Israel, do we need to send you more bullets, bombs and missiles???

    Hey, Jack, like I said, I have watch things develope over there for the last 56 years, go talk to some dumb young kids who haven't the foggest except what people like you tell them.
     
  24. The Third Man

    The Third Man Banned

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    It is pretty disgraceful that you would like to see more innocent people killed but that is where you are at in your life.
     
  25. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    Good Lord, 3rd, once more;

    In 2007, after a highly publicized row between Finkelstein and a notable opponent of his, Alan Dershowitz, Finkelstein's tenure bid at DePaul was denied. Finkelstein was placed on administrative leave for the 2007–2008 academic year, and on September 5, 2007, he announced his resignation after coming to a settlement with the university on generally undisclosed terms.

    When DePaul refused to give Finkelstein tenure and place him on administrative leave, in the Academic circles that means he was in essence, FIRED!!!

    So, shall we go through it slowly so you can understand???

    ""Finkelstein was placed on administrative leave""

    Oh, he did something that was undesirable so he got his tail stuck at home because they didn't want it at the university. They refused to give him tenure. In the outside world that means they refused to guarantee hire him back. So, put altogether, DePaul refused to hire him back and kicked his butt out of the school and left him at home and he then settled for the best deal he could get and resigned. That's the way they offer an easy out to an officer in the service when he has screwed up big time.
     

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