...And Yes, Barack Obama is a Marxist

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by BestViewedWithCable, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I read that when I was twelve, and it gave a good idea of Nineteenth Century conditions. Your family may have had direct experience of State Capitalism, but I think you need to get a bit further than a century-and-a-half back to explain that. All capitalists fight, and socialists fight the whole smelly boiling.
     
  2. BullsLawDan

    BullsLawDan New Member

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    I want smaller government.

    But threads like this only push us further down the road towards ruin, continuing this myth that Obama is somehow more in favor of big government than any of the Democrats or Republicans in federal government.

    Democrats and Republicans are like two wrestlers in a WWE storyline... They put on a good fight. The outcome of their matches can change depending on how each one of them gets cheered... But at the end of the day, we're still buying tickets in their arena.
     
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  3. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    Wow, great post, I love the analogy.
     
  4. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :) Reminds me of when I was in the Sixth Form discussing religion with the Headmaster. Our Head Boy said,' Don't you think, Sir, that asking all these questions might lead us to Learn Something and Lose Our Faith!' I often wonder if he went to the US and got into rightwing politics!
     
  5. BullsLawDan

    BullsLawDan New Member

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    I can't take credit for it. The great Ron Bennington, of the satellite radio show Ron & Fez came up with it.
     
  6. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    An Army officer who went postal. These type of incidents happen on a regular basis.
     
  7. Cigar

    Cigar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They do ... really?
     
  8. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

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    You should read the link in the op....

    Most New Party members hailed from the Democratic Socialists of America and the "Community Organizing" group ACORN. The party's Chicago chapter also included a large contingent from the Committees of Correspondence, a Marxist coalition of former Maoists, Trotskyists, and Communist Party USA members.

    The New Party's modus operandi included the political strategy of "electoral fusion," where it would nominate, for various political offices, candidates from other parties (usually Democrats), thereby enabling each of those candidates to occupy more than one ballot line in the voting booth. By so doing, the New Party often was able to influence candidates' platforms. (Fusion of this type is permitted in seven states -- Connecticut, Delaware, Idaho, Mississippi, New York, South Carolina, and Vermont -- but is common only in New York.)

    Though Illinois was not one of the states that permitted electoral fusion, in 1995 Barack Obama nonetheless sought the New Party's endorsement for his 1996 state senate run. He was successful in obtaining that endorsement, and he used a number of New Party volunteers as campaign workers.
     
  9. BestViewedWithCable

    BestViewedWithCable Well-Known Member

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    You should read the article linked in the op....

    Most New Party members hailed from the Democratic Socialists of America and the "Community Organizing" group ACORN. The party's Chicago chapter also included a large contingent from the Committees of Correspondence, a Marxist coalition of former Maoists, Trotskyists, and Communist Party USA members.

    The New Party's modus operandi included the political strategy of "electoral fusion," where it would nominate, for various political offices, candidates from other parties (usually Democrats), thereby enabling each of those candidates to occupy more than one ballot line in the voting booth. By so doing, the New Party often was able to influence candidates' platforms. (Fusion of this type is permitted in seven states -- Connecticut, Delaware, Idaho, Mississippi, New York, South Carolina, and Vermont -- but is common only in New York.)

    Though Illinois was not one of the states that permitted electoral fusion, in 1995 Barack Obama nonetheless sought the New Party's endorsement for his 1996 state senate run. He was successful in obtaining that endorsement, and he used a number of New Party volunteers as campaign workers.
     
  10. Rapunzel

    Rapunzel New Member Past Donor

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    At least you're honest about being a Marxist.
     
  11. Brewskier

    Brewskier Well-Known Member

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    No, they don't. Muslims suddenly shouting "ALLAHU AKBAR" and then going on a rampage is a much more common scenario, and that's what happened in Fort Hood. Nice try turning this around on the evil military, though.
     
  12. Terrant

    Terrant New Member

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    I'm sure lefties will admit to being Marxist/socialists about the same time the righties admit they are authoritarian plutocrats.

    I would call it the same thing what was used in regards to Tiller's murder and the attempted assassination of Giffords.
     
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  13. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

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    Uh... how is mandating private care a "stepping stone" for an NHS?

    Obamacare is corporatism. That's quite different from Marxism and Communism.

    Communism (in practice rather than with respect to what Marx wanted) involves the state taking control of industry and forcing it on the population.

    Marxism is actually very similar to anarcho-socialism, which involves replacing the government with a labor collective.

    The closest thing to Communism that Obama has done was having the government buy a large chunk of GM, but honestly, that had more to do with preventing other governments (like the Canadian one) from buying a larger share and having more influence over production decisions.

    Even beyond that, the government has barely wielded any real control of industry with the amount of bailing out it's done for both automakers and the financial sector, so Obama is clearly a corporatist, not a Marxist.

    You people freak out over some left wing conspiracy, when in reality, it's not about left and right -- it's about the elite vs. the rest of us.

    Big business has bought both sides, so it's not really any ideology that is the problem -- it's just good old fashioned corruption.
     
  14. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Sure, if google "going postal" you'd be amazed at what you can find or by listening to the radio everyday, you hear of people losing it and blasting away with their weapons.
     
  15. Trinnity

    Trinnity Banned

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    Obama doesn't care about the middle class. He only says he does.
     
  16. Dr. Righteous

    Dr. Righteous Well-Known Member

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    So you believe that Obama's ultimate desire is to disband the state in order to convert America into an anarcho-syndicalist commune? I don't buy that. I think Obama enjoys the power of the state far too much to ever consider the remotest desire to disband it.

    The dude's a state socialist at heart.

    Now we could get into the discussion that the Communist stage was never meant to actually be implemented, ever. The Communist Manifesto is simply the guidebook on how to acheive a socialist world government ruled by wealthy socialists. Engels himself was a wealthy socialist who could hardly have supported the idea of anarcho syndicalism that he and Marx "advocated" in the Communist Manifesto.
     
  17. Trinnity

    Trinnity Banned

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    • Health Care for All Americans = taxes and regulations
    • Wall Street Reform = shakedown
    • Avoiding another Great Depression = spin
    • Saving a million jobs in the American auto industry = screwing bondholders and taxpayers
    • Expanding Medicaid = more socialism, and a state issue
    • Eliminating Don't Ask Don't Tell = only after much pressure....
    • Expanding Children's Health = a state issue, not federal
    • Environmental Reform = more tyranny through regulation
    • Expanding Labor Rights = not govt business either
    • Expanding Civil Liberties = specify
    • Equal Pay for Equal Work = specify
    • Ended the Iraq War = botched that - failed to negotiate peacekeeping force
    • NO Attacks on his Watch = BULL. Fort Hood, recruitment center in Arkansas
    • Ending the War in Iraq = took credit for others' achievements
    • Killing OBL and Numerous other Leaders = not really
     
  18. Anikdote

    Anikdote Well-Known Member

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    This perspective is so strange to me. If he were a communist he'd have simply taken over control, no need to give them any money, same if he was a socialist, the entire paradigm that capital is owned and controlled privately would be a huge issue.

    But instead he took money from tax payers and gave it to private industry, ensuring that capital remained in the hands of capitalists in the private sector. If that isn't the epitome of (crony) capitalism, I'm not really sure what is.
     
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  19. Dr. Righteous

    Dr. Righteous Well-Known Member

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    Of course. It's easy to get healthcare for all Americans when you use the coercive force of government violence to compel individuals to purchase corporate services (health insurance). If you put a gun to my head, of course I'm going to buy health insurance. It's a fine example of Obama bowing to his corporate masters. Fascism at its finest.

    What reform? Bailing them out and giving Wall Street execs billions in bonuses? No reform happened. That is just political hogwash.

    For now. His stimulus created economic growth now at the expense of growth later. We haven't experienced the necessary pain. Don't worry, government can only abuse the free market for so long before it comes back to bite.

    Yeah and who paid for it!!! Taxpayers and consumers thru inflation and taxes. It wasn't necessary. If the auto industry was meant to fail, then it was meant to fail. Govt propping up the big auto companies just squelches their competition from smaller auto companies that may have formed. Competition is good for consumers, and GM produces junk. That's why they failed. But corrupt Union Bosses have far more lobbying influence over Obama than the invisible hand of the free market does.

    You talking about Cap and Trade? Lol. What a joke. That doesn't prevent pollution. It just ensures that only the big guys will be allowed to pollute and the small guys won't. It's a trick and a scam. The big guys who can pollute more will easily be able to outcompete small businesses who aren't allowed to pollute. More government fascism and abuse of free market competition. This is a fine example of how monopolies are created by government priviledge.

    Workers don't have rights. Only individuals have rights. Workers are a group, they're an abstract concept. Just like a corporation. You're perpetuating the same mindset that declares Corporations to be people! Corporations are NOT people! That is the major flaw with Collectivism. It is destructive and the path to totalitarianism.

    Civil liberties don't "get expanded". Civil liberties are inherently endowed to us by God. The only way that the size and amount of civil liberties changes is if the government abuses them. Obama didn't give us liberties, God did. Obama is not God!

    Who paid for it. Where did the money come from. This is unconstitutional, it should be left to the states to run.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsIpQ7YguGE"]Milton Friedman - Case Against Equal Pay for Equal Work - YouTube[/ame]
     
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  20. rahl

    rahl Banned

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    Thank you for proving my point
     
  21. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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    I use the term progressive to describe him. In a more generalized sense, he is a statist.
     
  22. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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    Dr. Righteous, I find it interesting that you are using Friedman as a reference. He is the architect of the monetary policy that you hate.
     
  23. siddhartha

    siddhartha New Member

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    Huh, Bob Lutz, former GM CEO and lifelong right winger thinks that the auto bailout was without question the right thing to do and that regardless who was in office, it would have happened. Are you calling him a Marxist?

    Obamacare? Funny, the prohibitive favorite for the Republican nomination created the HC program that the administration used as a model. Is Romney a Marxist too?

    Weath redistribution? Ahhhh, two trillion in tax breaks to the wealthy redistributed a lot of wealth, didn't it? Marxist?

    Your OP is a gigantic FAIL!
     
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  24. Sadanie

    Sadanie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That statement is too silly and uninformed to deserve a reply.

    Enjoy!
     
  25. Ekko

    Ekko New Member

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    I would concur with the op that Obama is a Marxist, a Socialist, and a Communist. Ultimately these are all just forms of anti capitalism and are actually just economic theories that attempt to equalize society. I believe they are all born of envy or jealousy. They believe it is bad for one person to achieve and reap higher reward for they deem that to be advantage over one who does not. It is class warfare to the extreme.

    The problem with their theory is the only way to achieve that society is through the application of force, in one form or another. That would also mean you have to have a government to enact that force and this is where I believe Obama would relish the thought of being the one in control so he could enact that force. If he could flip a switch and convert us, he would.

    All you have to do is listen to how he speaks and look at his associations and their beliefs. He may not have enacted as much as he would like but its not because of a lack of "want to".

    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, its probably a duck.....

    The real difference between the two parties is that democrats want government to be a socialist type force, forcing equality, where republicans want government to be more of a corporate board room where they set the rules but aren't offended by advantage. Neither of which really care what the constitution says. Repugs, imho, are the slightly less evil of the two.

    I would like to see a true free market, driven by people, without government interference at all, and get away from this state capitalism model we have today.
     

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