The Nuclear Annihilation of Israel?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Shiva_TD, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    45,715
    Likes Received:
    885
    Trophy Points:
    113
    No, the Iranian government would not hand over nukes to terrorists. They would fear having those same weapons used against them. People in power, especially despots, don't give away power to anyone and a nuclear weapon is an extreme form of power.
     
  2. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    21,596
    Likes Received:
    1,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  3. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    45,715
    Likes Received:
    885
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Yes and those have always been conventional weapons such as mines that can be used instead of improvised explosive devices. A "bomb is a bomb" regardless of whether it's made in the field, like the US Army taught us to do, or if it's made by a manufacturer of weapons.

    Of note US weapons are often found in conflicts around the world as well. We are a huge source of weapons even going so far as furnishing guns to drug cartels in Mexico for the last 4-5 years under both Bush and Obama.

    Edit: BTW can any example of a Iranian weapon being in a conflict where there aren't US weapons also present?
     
  4. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Messages:
    21,596
    Likes Received:
    1,528
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    US does to much interferring , I agree:twisted:
     
  5. loong

    loong Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,292
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If there should be a nuclear attack.....then it should not be Israel that is FORCED to do it.

    The Iranian IslamoFascist terrorist Swine have initiated the IRAQI QUAGMIRE .....THE NON-RECOGNIZED WAR WITH THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ~ 5 YERARS AGO IN IRAQ !!!

    Instead of pleading the case for the POS Iran,as some of you misguided Political Geniuses are doing......WE are the ones that should nuke Iranian Nuke Facilities.

    Especially since these Iranian Buttholes, in effect, declared OVERT WAR on us.....ON OUR SOIL.....with the attempted (THAT IS AN ACT.......when you attempt something.....YOU ACTED) assassination of the Saudi (Sunni as opposed to Iranian Shiite beliefs)Diplomat.
     
  6. Daggdag

    Daggdag Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    15,668
    Likes Received:
    1,957
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And knowing the US government, we will. And it will cost the american taxpayer trillions more than what already has been spent in Afganistan and Iraq. And it will lead to more terrorist attacks against america......
     
  7. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    45,715
    Likes Received:
    885
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Iran did not start the war in Iraq, the United States did in 2003 and it did so in defiance of the UN Charter which prohibits any nation from initiating military force against another nation without the expressed consent of the UN Security Council.
     
  8. loong

    loong Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,292
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Iranian IslamoFascist Terrorist Swine were waiting for the BIGGIE: NUKES .....so that they'd enhance their bargaining power of TERRORISM with more effectiveness.
     
  9. loong

    loong Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,292
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That is a bunch of CRAP.
     
  10. loong

    loong Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,292
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    0
    You realize of course that this belief of yours dovetails exactly with the Al Queda, and other islamofascist Terrorist Swine's thinking ...... and AGENDA !!!

    BTW, are you a Muslim ????

    You sure sound as though you are.
     
  11. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    45,715
    Likes Received:
    885
    Trophy Points:
    113
    In case it's been missed the Iranian government arrests and prosecutes terrorists. We may not agree with Iran on many different issues but Iran has actively participated in identifying and prosecuting members of al Qaeda.
     
  12. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    25,273
    Likes Received:
    1,633
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The NPT does not have any standing among the nuclear community when it comes to Iran, it will come down to if there is a direct threat to either of those nations or their allies to bring retaliation.

    Iran is not an ally of any nuclear armed country and does not have transportation capabality of its nuclear arsenal yet so a pre emptive strike by Israel would not bring about any response especially as it is an ally of the United States.

    In conclusion FOX news is vehemently against Irans interests and supportive of Israel so that is another reason why the US will allow a strike.
     
  13. Ironball

    Ironball New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,518
    Likes Received:
    121
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've adressed this topic on another thread, but I will repeat here.

    There is nothing for Israel to gain by waiting to attack Iran. In fact strategically it is foolish to stand by and wait for a U.N. consensus that will never happen.......and yet buys Iran ever more time to gain ever more strength.

    I doubt that there are any clear thinkers that actually believe that there will not be another conflict in the M.E. are there? Israel, and the U.S. for that matter have essentially been at war with with Iran by proxy? Most would agree that conflict is not a matter of if, but when. It is inevitable. In fact, it is promised and has been promised almost daily for the past 3 decades by Iran and even longer by neighbors. It is much better by any measure to choose the the timing and the terms of the inevitable than to allow sworn enemies dictate the schedule to their advantage.

    Yes, Iran has managed to defeat the Obama and Western countries in by buying time. They have used that time to disperse the various nuclear sites and to harden them. I am just speculating here, but they will now need bunker busters to open them up like a can opener followed by tactical nuke IMO. Those nukes could be delivered by air assets, from their submarine assets, or by the missile they tested.

    The response by the Big 5? All too predictable as we have seen with the response to Irans activities, North Korea, Syria, and Lebanon....... Hand wringing, indecisiveness, indecision, and disagreement. Sure they will have emergency meetings, talking heads would not miss an opportunity to leap on the soap box in front of throngs of media, lots of bellicose talk of what should happen...........and yet nothing will.

    Even more effective would be to time it with taking out Assar in Syria. The protestors taking advantage of disarray to take power of their nation.

    Hezbollah and Hamas would also need to be observed. Turkey would rattle sabres and yet do nothing. Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, and Jordan would be secretly pleased.

    “Opportunities multiply as they are seized.”― Sun Tzu
     
    loong and (deleted member) like this.
  14. loong

    loong Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,292
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    0
    In case its been missed Iran is the epitome of an Islamofascist Terrorist Swine nation .....with whom America has been in an UNRECOGNIZED WAR for ~ FIVE YEARS.

    Something that you seem to be in denial about.

    And, unless it's a sensitive point with you, you didn't answer my question: are you a Muslim ?

    Because you sure sound as though you are.

    Share and share alike: I am a sort of an Agnostic. My God is the God of Einstein & Spinoza (and others)

    BTW: are you a representative of CAIR ???

    Again, you sound as though you are.
     
  15. loong

    loong Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,292
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ironball,

    Yours is a SUPER EXCELLENT post.

    It's a pity a larger segment of America is not exposed to it.

    You made my day.
     
  16. Subdermal

    Subdermal Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    12,185
    Likes Received:
    415
    Trophy Points:
    0
    This position is not without challenge. We attacked Iraq with Desert Storm, which was sanctioned by the UN Security Council. Once Saddam was defeated - and as a provision of that incursion - Saddam was required to adhere to UNSC provision wrt to nuclear proliferation: a provision to which he did not adhere. The provision required the tacit understanding that Saddam's failure to comply would result in a re-invasion. Do you remember Hans Blix? His inability to inspect Iraq's nuclear facilities to his and the UN's satisfaction was what precipitated the 2nd invasion.

    The 2003 attack on Iraq was exactly that. In short, the UN Security Council already gave permission for that action as a result of forming the original cease-fire agreement after Desert Storm.
     
  17. loong

    loong Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,292
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I wonder if any one except IslamoFascist Terrorist Swine agree with your posts ?

    I doubt it.
     
  18. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    45,715
    Likes Received:
    885
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Iran has, in the past, submitted the proposal that it will submit to any and all nuclear inspections that Israel is willing to allow. They have placed no limitation on the IAEA inspections allowed in Iran so long as Israel also submits to the identical inspections.

    If we want to stop any and all possibility of Iran producing a nuclear weapon then the way to do that is to compel Israel to join the NPT, dismantle it's nuclear weapons and submit to IAEA inspections.

    It is Israel that is the cause of the possible proliferation of nuclear weapons in the Middle East. If Israel dismantles its nuclear weapons, joins the NPT and allows IAEA inspections the problems related to Iran are resolved.
     
  19. loong

    loong Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2011
    Messages:
    2,292
    Likes Received:
    91
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Seems like the IRREFUTABLE FACTS don't make an impression on IslamoFascist Swine .....and/or their supporters.
     
  20. Subdermal

    Subdermal Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2011
    Messages:
    12,185
    Likes Received:
    415
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Israel is surrounded by enemies. Iran is not.

    Israel has shown restraint with their nuclear arsenal. Iran has specifically expressed a desire for the opposite. Israel has had no choice but to respond in kind, and express the ability to beat Iran to the punch if needed.

    Israel is an ally to the West; Iran is not.

    It is extremely difficult to equivocate wrt Iran and Israel, but something in your way of thinking has allowed you to do so.
     
  21. Ironball

    Ironball New Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,518
    Likes Received:
    121
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am aware of Irans proposals but at the same time am suspicious. Iran has everything to gain.....Israel has everything to lose. Part of the strategic deterrent Israel possesses is the mystery of how many, which weapon systems, and of course locations. I cannot prove it, but I believe Israel maintains submarines rotated constantly at sea able to deliver a strike similarly to ourselves with our nuclear 'boomers'.

    I don't believe that we could ever get a consensus for IAEA inspection even if Iran actually submitted to them. Their goal is clear and they have their eye on the prize. They are fully aware of the strategic implications once they have possession. I doubt there is anything that will persuade them off their course.

    I disagree that Israel is the impetus of proliferation. If Iran gets a bomb......Saudi Arabia will have to have one also. Israel is the one that Sunni and Shia love to hate but take away Israel and they would be at each others throats. The nuke for Iran isn't simply to counter Israel IMO.

    No, where this is all going is pretty clear and there doesn't seem to be the will or ability to change the inevitability. We can point fingers of blame but it will solve nothing. With that in mind, I stand by my original assessment.
     
  22. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    25,728
    Likes Received:
    8,765
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What, in a suitcase? They could just get them on ebay from Russia.
     
  23. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    45,715
    Likes Received:
    885
    Trophy Points:
    113
    While somewhat off topic the 2003 report from Hans Blix is relavant in response to this comment.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/02/14/iraq/main540681.shtml

    As of February 2003 Iraq was and had been complying fully with the conditions of UNSC Resolution 1441 and was providing unimpeded access to all sites without prior notification including private houses and presidential sites. The UN weapons inspectors had found no evidence of undeclared items and no nuclear, biological or chemical weapons production facitilites.

    There was no justification for the US invasion and it was not authorized by any prior UN Security Council resolution. In fact such a resolution, if proposed in the Security Council, was doomed to a veto which is why the United States decided not to request Security Council authorization.

    Of note the reason that Iraq had kicked the UN inspectors out previously was because the US was using the weapons inspection program for covert spying operations by the United States. That was a justifiable reason for Iraq to expell the inspectors.
     
  24. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    25,728
    Likes Received:
    8,765
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Someone give the parrot a peanut
     
  25. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    45,715
    Likes Received:
    885
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ultimately, regardless of any other consideration, we cannot allow any nation to use nuclear weapons in an offensive manner for any reason. It is simply unacceptable to allow nuclear war. The only way I believe this can be prevented is if any nation responsible for a nuclear is annihilated by a retallitory strike. We don't want to do it of course but it has to be a very real threat with teeth where it will be done regardless of which nation initiates a nuclear attack of another nation.
     

Share This Page