Do you have the right to say that a “rich” person isn’t paying enough taxes?

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by drj90210, Jan 14, 2012.

  1. drj90210

    drj90210 Active Member

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    I find it infuriating when people who aren’t “rich” feel that they have justification to say that “rich people get paid too much and aren’t paying enough in taxes.” Do such people personally know every “rich” person on the planet on an intimate basis? Do they know each hardship and expenditure that each and every “rich” person faces? Of course not. Yet, it is commonplace to hear people exclaim that the “rich aren’t paying their fair share.” That’s BS of course, since the wealthy pay a disproportionately larger percentage of the tax burden.

    It would akin to a White person growing up in the 1980s saying that, “Black people growing up in the 1950s Deep South had it really easy”. How is it fair to make such a generalized statement on such a broad cross-section of the population, especially when you are not a member of this cross-section of the population and have no first-hand experience to back up your assertion?
     
  2. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    Anyone is entitled. They would be correct in this instance too. That makes your premise flawed and your analogy repellent.
     
  3. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Rich people are paid incredibly more than they deserve, and on the whole they pay no taxes. Jail em'

    The rich supported the foul treatment of black people in the South to the hilt. Hang 'em.
     
  4. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    "Do you have the right to say that a 'rich' person isn’t paying enough taxes?"

    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

    Yes, that was easy.
     
  5. Burning Giraffe

    Burning Giraffe New Member

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    Of course they have a right... But it's disturbingly unethical what people are advocating when they advocate wealth redistribution.
     
  6. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    People have the right to say whatever they want. But that doesn't mean it's true.
     
  7. Haplo

    Haplo New Member

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    Yes, every single rich person in the world is a white supremacist from the Southern U.S. 30-50-100 years ago.
     
  8. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't be absurd! No more than 50% at the outside. The rest are much younger and support 'Israel'.
     
  9. Stay_Focused

    Stay_Focused New Member

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    How much do they deserve to pay? Currently in U.S they pay close to 40% marginal tax rate.

    And the abolitionist and black civil rights have been funded and supported by rich Northern capitalists. Check out who supported Booker T. Washington. Do not get me started talking about unions.
     
  10. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    How many actually pay that much? When a CEO can state that the person who cleans his office pays more tax than he does there's something deeply wrong with the system.
     
  11. Stay_Focused

    Stay_Focused New Member

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    A lot of financial high flyers have rewards not in terms of income but capital gains.
     
  12. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    90% minimum. If people pay for good things out of guilt, good. What is your problem here? Why should poor people pay taxes when the rich have stolen their money?
     
  13. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    Then tax that heavily.
     
  14. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    Of course I have the right to say that, and so does anybody else. You have the right to say whatever you want, whether it's stupid or not.
     
  15. Oakchair

    Oakchair Banned

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    Incorrect currently the very wealthy are paying less int axes then middle class Americans
    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/10/13/342705/report-25-percent-millionaires-lower-taxes/
    ^25% of millionaires have lower tax rates then around 11 million middle class Americas.

    http://www.blueoregon.com/2011/09/one-chart-shows-obama-right-about-buffet-rule/
    ^The average millionaire with 2/3rd income from investments pays 30% less taxes then someone making 50,000 a year

    http://wweek.com/portland/article-17350-9_things_the_rich_dont_want_you_to_know_about_taxes.html
    ^The bottom 50% of American have a 35% higher effective tax rate compared to wages then the richest 400 Americans.
     
  16. kreo

    kreo Well-Known Member

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    It is unethical to advocate for wealth distribution but it is very ethical and democratic to call for equal distribution of the power. Majority of rich people had become rich because they have greater access to the power.
    E.g. in U.S., rich people are buying congressmen, so they get favorable taxation policy.
     
  17. Stay_Focused

    Stay_Focused New Member

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    If you were talking about financial crisis, then only some investment banks screwed it up. I don't see how the rich have "stolen" the wealth from others. Hedge funds and private equities did their honest livings without bailing out from public money. And a lot rich folks do not even made a living out of finance.

    I do not see the point of penalizing economics success and I definitely do not see social liberals applying the concept consistently on none-economic rewards. My Economics professor in school used to share this joke,"What is the redistributionist state going to do with guys that has no girlfriend?"
     
  18. Stay_Focused

    Stay_Focused New Member

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    Then less people will invest. Transaction cost in finance will be very high. Brokers will lose jobs. Innovative people like Steve Jobs will find themselves harder to borrow.
     
  19. Kramer

    Kramer Member

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    I have never heard anyone say they (themselves) were paid too much.

    As far as rich people paying too much or too little in tax who knows...there are many legal ways to reduce one's tax burden.
     
  20. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    Yes, I most definitely do.
     
  21. NavyIC1

    NavyIC1 New Member

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    Well, While the CEO is more than likely paying less of a percentage of his income than his secretary, I seriously doubt he is paying less actual money. I am all for everyone paying the same percentage of their income, but that still means you will pay more money the more you make.

    Also, you can't seriously expect someone making 25k a year to pay more than someone making 150k a year or even 50k a year. My wife and I both spent time in the military after high school. I spent 15 years and she spent 8 years in. We used the GI Bill to put her through her undergraduate degrees and once she was almost done with her Masters and was ready to start her PhD program, I started working on my Undergraduate degrees. Right now, we are living off of money we saved up while I was working when she was in school and our VA money. WHen we both finish school, we should go from about 38k a year to about 150k year. We fully expect to pay a much higher percentage of our income when we make about 5 times more.
     
  22. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Warren Buffet,
    Bill Gates,
    Bill Clinton,
    Eric Schmidt,
    Russell Simmons,
    Brian Moynihan,
    Doug Edwards,
    George Soros,
    Steve Jobs (RIP)

    ....and the list goes on. In fact, there is a whole group of these rich millionaires who say they want their taxes to go up.
    They are called The Patriotic Millionaires, and last I checked they made up about 10% of the top 1% and were growing.

    Its not really that hard to know what people are paying in taxes, overall at least.
    http://www.cbo.gov/publications/collections/tax/2009/all_tables.pdf

    Also, just because something is legal, does not make it right.
    Just as you having the right to do something does not make it the right thing to do.

    We do know for a fact that corporations occasionally get away with paying zero taxes.
    Just look at companies like Whirlpool, Wells Fargo, General Electric, Verison, Boeing, Duponte, Duke energy, PGNE, We energy.

    Some of these companies even manage to draw a net paycheck from the government, all quite legal,
    but does such a thing make sense for corporations and individuals who many rational persons would conclude do not need that extra money?

    I believe there is no absolute dollar value at which point you can say,
    that person is making too much money, or that corporation isn't paying enough in taxes.

    But I sense there is something amiss when money that could be used to hire unemployed citizens
    instead goes toward a tax cut for someone who has already got millions stored away in the banks.

    I believe we really need to get a handle on our priorities.

    -Meta
     
  23. drj90210

    drj90210 Active Member

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    You are either purposefully being obtuse or have the reading comprehension level of a 6-year-old. Obviously when I was talking about "right", I was talking about justification. If you were interpretting my meaning of "right" by Constitutionally-protected freedom, then you need clearly need to take a reading comprehension course for elementary students.
     
  24. DeathStar

    DeathStar Banned

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    I don't agree with taxation for the most part.

    However, this depends on how the person became rich. If they became rich by being productive, then no one should tell them any such thing.

    If they became rich by (for instance, hypothetically) sucking up all of Earth's oxygen into huge storage tanks and charging people $1,000 USD per day (or anything, for that matter) to breathe, then I think I'd have the right to kill them and take back everyone's air.
     
  25. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    For the most part, I agree with your view, with a few additions though.

    1. People who produce wealth all on their own should not be taxed on that wealth in general.
    2. People who, for instance, suck up all oxygen and charge high prices for it, or refuse to sell it should, at least, be taxed...

    .....but what about those people who don't suck up all of the oxygen? What if they only suck up half?

    Then they might still be able to deprive enough people of oxygen, such that they could still charge unfair prices,
    or that others would be very negatively affected if they chose not to sell at all.

    I say tax anyone who accumulates something which by accumulating a significant amount of that something, they, being an individual or a group,
    could deprive others of accumulating the same things.

    I think this should apply to many things, but especially things which are necessary for survival, such as oxygen, food, water, or even shelter.

    3. People who agree to work together to create wealth, should agree to how that wealth is to be shared.
    Assuming number 2. is not used to force someone into an agreement,
    and assuming there has been no deception, agreements should be upheld.

    -Meta
     

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