Gun Related Deaths In America 2012

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Makedde, Jan 11, 2012.

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  1. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I'd have to disagree. I'm the only one referring to the empirical evidence and avoiding the standard empirical bias created by complete reliance on raw data. Hypothesis testing has to be followed, otherwise you have nothing of note!
     
  2. Archer0915

    Archer0915 New Member

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    Reiver I have posted government study's and I consider them as or more credible that what you fail to post. I am not saying that your studies are or are not false because I can not see them. You spout gibberish and produce nothing concrete and I suspect it is because your sources would be trumped by mine.

    Now Bugger OFF Old Chap.
     
  3. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Don't fib now. You've posted government information and used that to splutter and splatter spurious relationship. You haven't referred to a single source that has undertaken the required hypothesis testing methodology. Indeed, in terms of the gun control debate, you haven't even introduced yourself with anything credible.
     
  4. Archer0915

    Archer0915 New Member

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    And you see we just go round and round.
     
  5. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Not quite, I continue to refer to the evidence and achieve a virtuous circle and you don't and achieve a...
     
  6. Archer0915

    Archer0915 New Member

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    Evidence that you pull out of your ass for all I know. Present it so it can be seen or you have nothing. I want the data and a link to information I can read. Surely if this was not BS it would be out there for all to see.
     
  7. constructionguy

    constructionguy New Member

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    The title of this thread should read "Human Related Deaths". I'll be (*)(*)(*)(*)ed the last time I saw a gun jump up all by itself and kill someone.

    How about Baseball Bat related deaths
    Knife related deaths
    Chemical related deaths
    Wood chipper related deaths..........and lets not forget.........
    Stupidity related deaths
     
  8. Archer0915

    Archer0915 New Member

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    Dude check out some of my posts. Gun related deaths are down where they have banned guns as are the homicide rate in general but the violent crime rates have almost doubled in some places that banned guns. It seemed an attack so I went on the defensive and the FBI lab shows US crime rates going down.
     
  9. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Data is available to all. Its useless on its own. It has to be used within an empirical methodology capable of testing a gun hypothesis. You should be asking for the references of the studies. Of course you're already been provided with examples and choosing to ignore them. Same ole, same ole
     
  10. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I just read that gun related crimes in DC have doubled. Of course, try to get a carry license there.
     
  11. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Deaths will always occur (obviously). Gun control, however, has been shown to be one of the most effective regulation devices in reducing deaths.
     
  12. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Even though gun crimes are up in the UK this last year, guns have never been a primary weapon of choice, knives have. Knife deaths are 4 times higher than gun deaths. Wonder when they will outlaw knives there?

    Oh, BTW, guns are banned in the UK but people are still getting shot. See how well that worked?
     
  13. constructionguy

    constructionguy New Member

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    Among who ? The criminals themselves ? Seems to me every state that has a conceal carry law, criminals are less likely to confront, rape, or break into a home they know has a gun in it.

    I know if I was a criminal, that might be of concern to me.

    Stats don't tell the whole story, they just record gun related deaths. It could be a home owner defending himself, and that death is recorded as gun related, meaning somehow that was bad.
     
  14. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    Riev, I know that if and when a person either trys to assult me or break into my home he will be looking down the barrel of a .44 mag. Now, do you think that person is going to stick around or run???

    Besides, Reiv, I was a reserve office for a number of years and have 3 son-in-laws that have over 50 years of service between them. And you think that we don't talk??? Have you got any practical experance on the force or are you nothing but a bench warmer that thinks he knows something????
     
  15. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    Considering our muder rate is the same as it was in 1969 with the population better than 50% more, I would say that you have a "LARGE AREA" (3,717,813 sq mi) with a LARGE POPULATION (313,000,000) over a LONG RANGE OF TIME (41 years).

    Let's see, a 44 Magnum hollow point 180 grain slug leaves the end of the barrel at 1500 feet per second with 899 foot pounds of energy. Where as a .40 cal. SW
    with a 180 grain hollow point slug leaves the barrel at 1000 feet per second with 400 foot pounds of energy. Which one would you rather be on the business end of?? And you don't need a large date set to know what a person was hit with, it's rather evedent.
     
  16. Foghlai

    Foghlai New Member

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    Which forms of gun control have been found to be the most effective?
     
  17. beenthere

    beenthere Well-Known Member

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    Cars kill over twice as many people per year than we have murders from all sources. But even with strong gun control laws you still have fire arm deaths and robberies and assaults go up.

    Now if you want to get the deaths down let's take a liook at the biggest killer, shall we;

    In 2009 in the U.S. we had 12,744 killed by drunk drivers and another 10,839
    killed by alcohol impaired drivers. Guns killed less than 10,000 in homicides in 2009.
     
  18. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Interesting question and, as yet, that is still under debate. We should see a shift in the debate. We know the evidenc repeatedly supports the 'more guns=more crime' hypothesis and the 'more guns=more suicideK hypothesis. However, whilst there are studies that look into it, we still don't know the assorted impacts from specific policy. In terms of the gun control debate, that's obviously not good enough and encourages a dogmatic reaction (from both sides) over proposed policies
     
  19. SpotsCat

    SpotsCat New Member Past Donor

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    The correct answer is "C - None of the above." :D
     
  20. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Are you seriously going to go for a "there are multiple causes of death so we can ignore one"

    The empirical evidence cannot reject the 'more guns=more crime' hypothesis. Unless you refer to properly conducted empirical testing you have nothing but hot air.
     
  21. Archer0915

    Archer0915 New Member

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    http://www.catb.org/~esr/guns/aiming.html
     
  22. SpotsCat

    SpotsCat New Member Past Donor

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    Excellent find!

    A paragraph in the article you've referenced brings up a question that I've repeatedly asked, and none of the anti-firearm advocates can (or will) answer -- (bold type mine)

    Given that the "War on Drugs" is little more than a containment exercise, and that "Prohibition" was an abject failure, why would anyone believe that banning firearms would have any chance of success?
     
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Except, of course, when it doesn't. Unfortunately for you, your empirical evidence proves nothing. If your silly hypothesis were true then Switzerland would be a war zone.
     
  24. Archer0915

    Archer0915 New Member

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    Now Reiver please post your studies or you really fail here; as usual.
     
  25. Archer0915

    Archer0915 New Member

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    Actually Reiver is 100% correct is some cases but depending on the variables he is also dead wrong in other cases.

    The more guns in the hands of criminals the higher the crime rate where there is no deterrent.
     
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