Why does Homeopathy seem to irk skeptics the most?

Discussion in 'Health Care' started by suede, Sep 30, 2011.

  1. AllEvil

    AllEvil Active Member Past Donor

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    Because its more well known than other alternative medicines, and exceptionally stupid to boot.
     
    Bowerbird and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    It answered it.
     
  3. drj90210

    drj90210 Active Member

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    I consider all forms of "alternative medicine" that have not undergone rigorous scientific analyses to prove that they elicit a statistically significant result over a placebo to be equal in their uselessness. I do not look at homeopathy any differently that most other forms of alternative medicine.
     
  4. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    Those 'highly skilled' idiots think that putting a child on drugs for ADHD is more beneficial than simply putting the kid on a diet and removing sugar from their diet. Because nothing else works, drugs are always best, right?
    No wonder we have tons of over medicated people out there, doctors are never willing to accept that sometimes they are wrong.
     
  5. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    As I said, if it works for someone, then who are you to tell them that it doesn't and they shouldn't waste their money?

    I am sick to death of doctors claiming something doesn't work because the science hasn't determined it. People come on TV saying that such and such a thing helped with their pain and some idiot doctor comes on and says that there is no evidence it works. Those doctors need to shut up and let people use whatever they wish to make themselves feel better.
     
  6. suede

    suede Banned

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    Where do you get that it is?

    More stupid than any other therapy that "doesn't work"?
     
  7. AllEvil

    AllEvil Active Member Past Donor

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    Its one of the few I've heard of. The other ones I've heard of (acupuncture, aromatherapy, etc) at least sound like they have the benefit of being relaxing.

    No. It gets ire for being stupid. It gets the most ire for being well known.
     
  8. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    Because it actually isn't working for them, the placebo effect is.
     
  9. Herby

    Herby Active Member Past Donor

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    I disagree. Individual doctors may have trouble to admit mistakes, but on the long run, science based medicine tends to improve. Surgery gets less invasive, anesthetics get less dangerous, diagnosis gets more accurate, new drugs are developed and older ones discarded, and much more. If you look at the history of modern medicine, there is plenty of evidence that it keeps changing all the time. In other words, doctors as a whole keep admitting that their previous treatments haven't been ideal and that there's still a lot of room for improvement.
     
  10. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    I second this motion!!!

    And add this

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18559-stop-funding-homeopathy-say-british-mps.html

    Now there is nothing inherently wrong with engendering a placebo effect in a patient - I do it myself when I give a pain medication I always "talk up the medication" so I deliberately get the patients to believe it will work - while always of course letting them know they can tell me if it isn't. But the idea is to relax the patient enough and allow the placebo effect to "assist" the aim of pain relief

    BUT

    Should we pay for what is essentially sugar pills to GET this effect?
     
  11. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    One of the reasons why doctors prescribe the expensive medication rather than the cheaper generic brand is not because doctors are in on "it" but because they know that the placebo effect works better with the expensive brand than the generic. Yes, the placebo effect has to be taken into account even in medication that actually works.
     
  12. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Let us look at some of these "alternative medicines" on the Cochrane library (evidence based practice database of systematic reviews) or for the those who have never come across this sort of thing before - someone looking hard at a large number of scientific papers, picking those that have been well conducted (large number of people enrolled, double blind study etc) and then weighing up the evidence to see what is the overall result

    Now this is just ONE of the many reports about acupuncture on Cochrane

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD007587/abstract
     
  13. drj90210

    drj90210 Active Member

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    A common theme of your posts is your utter contempt for medical doctors. I'm not sure what your reasoning behind this is, but it is clearly irrational. With that being said, not all doctors are pediatricians, and thus we do not all see children with ADHD. Pediatricians undoubtedly exhaust all options before starting medications. Similarly to a general practitioner who first offers "lifestyle management" to newly diagnosed hypertensive patients (e.g. low salt diet, increased aerobic exercise, weight loss regimen), pediatricians certainly also offer "lifestyle management" to ADHD patients (decrease simple sugars, regular exercise, etc) before starting medications.

    Regarding these medications, they are FDA approved to treat ADHD so there is no reason for these pediatricians to "accept that sometimes they are wrong" because they aren't wrong.

    If you were a pediatrician, and a mother came to you with her hyper child who you diagnosed with ADHD, what would you do after the child failed "lifestyle management" options? It's very easy to criticize others, but for once try to put yourself in their shoes.
     
  14. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Now let us look at Aromatherapy

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003150/abstract

    So not many studies but many nursing homes do use it - but I suspect that is because it is preferrable to the normal smell of Eu de Wee
     
  15. drj90210

    drj90210 Active Member

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    Because people in the know (like physicians) have an obligation to only advise treatment methodology that is substantiated by clinical trials that yield stastically significant results. Anything otherwise would be a dereliction of their duties and an affront to the Hippocratic Oath.

    So if a group of people state to me that eating horse feces cured their cancer, should I start recommending to all of my cancer patients to start eating horse feces? You reasoning is HUGELY flawed. You actually condemn doctors for adhering to the scientific method?! Yeah, how dare they. Would you rather they all recommend random untested treatment modalities to their patients instead (like eating horse feces to cure cancer)?!

    YES!!! That's a doctor's job! If there is no evidence behind the efficacy of a certain treatment, then no doctor in his right mind would recommend it. What is your aversion towards science and evidence-based medicine?!

    And if the dude on TV really had something that worked, he would have conducted a randomized clinical trial proving a statistically significant result!

    No doctor will hold a gun to your head and force you to not take a placebo, so I fail to see your point here. If you want to be an idiot and take something not backed by clinical research, be my guest.

    Why should they shut up? Because they actually care that their patients undergo treatment that is backed up by stastitically significant evidence?!!! Because they actually want their patients to get better?! Because they don't want to lose their medical license?!! How dare they.
     
  16. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

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    while it is true that some poor behaviour issues are related to diet (and poor sleeping patterns are another significant contributor) simply reducing sugar intake won't do squat when a child has a diagnosis of ADHD.

    I seriously doubt many doctors hand out meds to pre teens without looking at all factors.

    maybe some do - but these would be the exception rather than the rule.

    I think though that meds in conjunction with behavioural intervention therapies would work better than meds alone, but a significant number of parents find these therapies too challenging.
     
  17. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

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    no.

    you didn't answer my question.

    I haven't really seen any evidence that homeopathy irks sceptics more than the whole range of other alternative therapies.

    I am not wanting to make it complicated. its just if you make a claim like that, it should be an accurate claim, and I haven't seen that it is.
     
  18. cassandrabandra

    cassandrabandra New Member

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    you've also no evidence that I am a homeopathy hater.

    got a homeopathic remedy for feelings of irrational persecution?

    I understand there are some good flower remedies for this kind of thing.
     
  19. Sadistic-Savior

    Sadistic-Savior New Member Past Donor

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    Who exactly is saying that it does? Can you give me a specific example of someone who says that Homeopathy is worse than other forms of snake oil?

    You have constructed a strawman argument.

    [​IMG]


    That appears to be a tacit admission that you cannot provide any such examples.
     
  20. suede

    suede Banned

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    Still trying to find where you get that Homeopathy is more well known than other Alt therapies. In my experience, it is not. I still got people asking me "what is that?" when I mention Homeopathy, but never when I mention things like Accupunture, Chiropractic, or Naturopathy.
     
  21. suede

    suede Banned

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    I posted the evidence. I can't force people to accept it.
     
  22. suede

    suede Banned

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    See above.
     
  23. Sadistic-Savior

    Sadistic-Savior New Member Past Donor

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  24. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

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    I already told you why it irks me more. There is no scientific way that homeopathy can work. The whole theory that the most dilute solutions are the most effective is just inane. There may be other alternatives that annoy me more, but I don't know much about many alternatives.
     
  25. suede

    suede Banned

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    Glad someone has the balls to admit that.

    Is it possible science doesn't yet know how it works?
     

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