Holy Bible condemns homosexuality? YES!

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by 4Horsemen, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    Well, that is certainly what a bigoted nihilist would say ... not what an examination of history says though. Which I am sure, like researching Christian Principles on divorce, you have no doubt already studied and mastered?
     
  2. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    Oh, so if society changes and lying is deemed acceptable ... that means its good automatically?

    Again, what benefot does homosexuality bring our society? Its a siple enough question, but if the only benefit homosexuality brings is that, if accepted, brightly dressed men with nice hair will stop calling you a bigot? Well, who cares?
     
  3. DBM aka FDS

    DBM aka FDS Well-Known Member

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    Are you Christian or Jewish… Do you Follow Christ or God alone in the Old Testament? What Jesus stated was laws… There are only Ten Laws God put forth on “His People” at that time were Jews… and they were The Ten Commandments. You are not Jewish are you?
     
  4. DBM aka FDS

    DBM aka FDS Well-Known Member

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    And here you are in the military with women... Do you hold up your Bible and shout at them that what they are doing is an abomination?
     
  5. mihapiha

    mihapiha Active Member

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    I look it this purely on the bases of human capital.

    If I have 300 million people and I know a couple million of them are gay, I can let them be, or attack them. You never know where the next Einstein, the next Google-founder, the next most brilliant mind will come from. They could be a white man, but they could be also be a Pakistani woman who's a lesbian. By attacking some group of people for whatever reason, I destroy the human capital the country has. 8% are gay in the US I believe. So about 24 million. If now 6 million people attack them, I lost 10% of the population because they are fighting for no reason. Even worse: People who're tired of fighting leave the country.

    For every 100 advanced degrees in America nearly 300 jobs are created. So by fighting a group of people for no other reason than a point of view on life, I make it more likely for that individual to leave the country and create jobs else where.

    Purely from a financial point of view, these fights are a desaster for any country. People don't realize that they are gay until their teens - or sometimes even later. So after being the beneficiary of the any countries social system (schools, health care, library, postal office, etc.) without paying taxes these individuals leave the country in order to being left alone. And create jobs and pay taxes in another country. Not only a huge financial boost for the other country, but this also creates competition from the own people in other countries.

    Any country unwilling to look at the entire human capital is loosing ground. If you exclude minorities, you loose 10 or 20% of all the people who should be creating jobs and paying taxes simply because they are to busy fighting for their rights...

    Nothing could be worse than 20 - 25 year old educated people leaving the country after the society and government spend a fortune on them. Just when they are about to get the first job and start paying back they leave, and another country gets tax-payers without having put previous investments into them.
     
  6. debateme

    debateme New Member

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    Why do you assume I am an atheist? And if so why would I have to "visit...websites" to gain any perspective?
    Homosexuality was not named in the big "Ten", neither was gluttony or smoking (hold your body as a temple).
    If you want to go to Leviticus you had better be prepared. There's a whole buncha stuff you would think ridiculous in today's world. Ridiculous or not, all that stuff is covered by the blood. Nailed to the cross. Jesus is the bridge from the imperfect man to the perfect immortality.
    But you don't have to sanction homosexuality in your church any more than you have to sanction interracial marriage. Like interracial marriage, two same sex individuals have the inalienable right to pursue happiness with the majority aged marriage partner of their choice.
    YOU cannot change that, I cannot change that, though it may be strictly against our religious understanding.
    It is a plain and simple fact of Americanism.
     
    DBM aka FDS and (deleted member) like this.
  7. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Good, then all of the true bible thumpers on the planet should refrain from engaging in homosexual activities.....Is there anything in the holy bible about minding your own business and just S-ingTFU about those who don't believe in your favorite book of fairytales? If so, try that for a while and see how it works out...I don't think any respectible supreme being would want his followers to be a bunch of blow hard busy bodies...That's bad publicity IMO...
     
  8. DBM aka FDS

    DBM aka FDS Well-Known Member

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    People who believe in evolution read…

    You have been repped!!!

    Why I made the reference to Evolution is because this is what I battle with. People who know biology do not rant about crap they know nothing about. Your post is exactly right. It is what being a Christian is. The Blood of Jesus washed all that away, but the religious will hold on to “what their religion” tells them to as blasphemy. You know your Bible!!! I appreciate those who are involved in or not, dealing with This Book are knowledgeable and do “read” it instead of being told what is in it without opening and then trying to discuss intelligently on it, when they have no clue what it states. Being a Christian means you FOLLOW CHRIST’s Word. Not word given to people’s that have nothing to do with you unless you are Jewish… Do those who follow eat pork? Of course they do – and that sin (if you believe in it) is equal to homosexuality or murder or having sex with your own mother….

    I suggest those who are against homosexuality get learned a little more about their Bible…

    Thank you for posting…
     
  9. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    I believe I have already explained the referrences, and they are quite explicit in their being spelled out. There are no Biblical admonitions against inter-racial marriage, save those of the descendants of Cain ... which no longer applies because that blood line has long sense been intermixed and made irrelevant.

    There is no inalienable right to choose the partner of your choosing. You cannot chose a child, you cannot marry an inanimate object, you cannot be polygamist, you cannot marry your rape victim, you cannot marry an animal, you cannot marry a dead body, you cannot marry a name or a number. So lets please leave off the superfluous and flowerly propoganda and deal with reality.

    You tyhink men should be ablt to marry men? OK. Go ahead and show us why they ... well, they can get married can't they ... so go ahead and show us why our society to should pay to ENCOURAGE this practice? What does our society, not flowery speech writers, get out of it?

    The right not to be called a bigot?

    Well, that worked well for McCarthy too, only he used the word communist rather than bigot. Because fighting communism was a fundamental and inelaienable necessity under McCarthy right? Works that way does it?
     
  10. MAYTAG

    MAYTAG Active Member

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    Here is the part you aren't getting:

    Matthew 7(*)
    1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
    2(*)For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
    3(*)And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
    4(*)Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
    5(*)Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

    It's a tough read... especially for the type of Christians we most often find at forums like these.
     
  11. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    I would suggest you do the same. At no point does the Bible say that, because we all Sin, we should go ahead an advocate sin. No where. Apparently, you read the opposite in the Bible did you?
     
  12. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    Yep, judged by the same standard. Whether its me or you sticking our socket in an anus, its still wrong. WOuld you care to explain how being judged by that standard would offend me? Promiscuity you say? Yep, don't stick my socket in any random hole, animal, vegetable, or woman. And if I did? I would still be wrong wouldn't I?

    Amazing how standards work, and its funny that atheists, advocating the abandonment of them, think its Christians who fear them?

    Maybe you should read your Bible.
     
  13. mihapiha

    mihapiha Active Member

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    My view I know clashes with your views

    It's more rational and not based on individual interpretations on the bible. I cannot follow why hating others is a good thing in the bible if it clearly says "Judge not, that ye be not judged". I might not understand it right, but doesn't that mean you should let people be the way they are?
     
  14. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    Once again, the ready resort to calling disagreement hate.

    Is anyone advocating that we drag homosexuals into a dungeon and beat them senseless? Is anyone advocating homosexual pogroms? Is anyone saying we should criminalize homosexuality? Or are we drawing a clear distinction between tolerating different opinions and behavior, and advocating behavior that isn't such a good thing for our society?

    Simply because some people believe they can control their carnal urges, and indeed put that into practice, and the other side does not, and indeed puts that into practice, does not mean that one side or the other intrisically hates the other.

    What I do hate, is a bunch of people demanding tolerance and acceptance for their points of view, who readily resort to emotional blackmail and hurled insults of bigotry.
     
  15. mihapiha

    mihapiha Active Member

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    Maybe it's a wrong understanding of mine then. I always thought that the more religious (and fanatic) you are the more hate you bring out to others who don't share your believes. I figured that the most religious (born again) Christians have more problems with gay people than moderate Christians or Atheists. I was rather shocked when I saw Fred Phelps for the first time. And the worrying part is, he considers himself Christian...
     
  16. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    The depth of ones faith alone is not the determiner of whether they are right or wrong.

    For example, Saint Kolbe was a very faithful man, and his faithfulness provides an uplifting and tolerant message. Why is his depth of faith not held as an example of what can be best in very deep faith?
     
  17. debateme

    debateme New Member

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    This shows (I believe) a complete misunderstanding of passages which reference Cain. Are you aware of a concerted effort by clergy, in our early Am history, to link a biblical reference to tabooing mixed marriages?
    Besides that Solomon wrote entire books in verse about the beauty of one wife who scholars think was definitely Black.
    Human nature if only for survival, embraces cohabitation, grouping, and cooperation.
    If you are alone and want to be married you are not happy. If, as a person who desires cohabitation, you are limited to marrying only red headed girls when you've always abhorred them, you will be unhappy.
    The founding document of our country specifically names pursuit of happiness as one of its precepts.

    Yes you can choose a child through adoption, foster care and invitro fertilization.

    You can marry one person. And our laws of state and federals until quite recently, only specify quantity and majority age as criteria.
    You can't marry a dead gay person, or more than one gay or lesbian at a time under law. But constitutionally you can marry one person over 21 whatever either of your genders or skin colors may be.
    Making ridiculous state laws against gay marriage is like Jim Crow laws and earlier slavery laws.
    Let us deal with the reality we live in a country that does not allow its popular religions to dictate public policy or law. Thank God.

    Same thing we get out of men and women getting married. We get stability and that is good for any economy.

    Some of it is bigoted and some is just fear of the unknown. Not everyone against integration was a bigot. Some just believed myths and didn't know what a change might bring.
    The only change I can see that complete embracing of homosexual marriage would effect is insurance companies and social programs could no longer discriminate against a huge swath of hard working individuals.
     
  18. MAYTAG

    MAYTAG Active Member

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    A beam and a mote seem like two different things huh? So I think it doesn't matter if it's you yanking your beam around to women not your wife or your brother sticking his beam in another man's mote, Jesus is saying shut up about them and worry about your own business.
     
  19. mihapiha

    mihapiha Active Member

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    I guess it's because I only get the bad picture of things. Over 90% of scientists are Atheists or Agnostic. Hence it's hard for people with loads of evidence in front of them believe in something without evidence.
    And then I see a report on Liberty-University in Virginia and I ask myself: "Is this really a step forward or a step back?" and I ask myself "Why is deep faith good?"

    Those few examples ruin the whole experience for me. I was raised Chatolic but the anti-semitic views of my parents moved me away from faith, and I started to look at it as something that devides more people than brings together. Don't get me wrong! I've seen faith do a lot of good things, but I feel that the bad things I see because of it overweighs the good things. Weather it's hate/disapproval towards another religion, sexual orientation, sex or anything else.
     
  20. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    Aware that it was wrong. Which is why I brought it up as rubbish.

    So, if screwing goats makes me happy ... well, society cannot pit reasoned limits on that pursuit? Anarchy is OK.

    Again, what benefits does our society garner by allowing same sex marriage? By equating gay marriage as the equal of heterosexual marriage? When the science pointedly says its not BTW.


    And none of that has any bearing on the statistical problems of raising children in different environments. the source of the child is irrelevant to the habitat.


    Well, then I guess you can indeed put limits on the pursuit of happiness. The question is why homosexuality should not be tolerated ... but encouraged.

    Nor do we allow atheists or minorities to dictate policies. Nor do we allow people to bully others into policy by claiming everything that disagrees with them is bigotry.

    We do, eh? How?

    But they can still descriminate against polygamists? Some of it is just called jumping on a band wagon because you fear being called a bigot.
     
  21. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    And yet there he is in Luke 17 pointedly diagreeing with you ... It helps to have actually read the Bible.
     
  22. Neutral

    Neutral New Member Past Donor

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    Where do you get your statistics?

    http://blog.beliefnet.com/roddreher/2010/04/science-vs-religion-what-do-scientists-say.html

    And the question is, if you only see it doing bad things might that be because that is what you are looking for? Or perhaps, the same site that miseducated you about the prevelance of atheism in science, might also only be focusing on the bad?

    Why is it that all these super educated people have no idea about guys like Saint Kolbe?
     
  23. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    Yes, yes, yes, ... no.
     
  24. debateme

    debateme New Member

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    Agreed.

    I already addressed that when I said "You can't marry a dead gay person, or more than one gay or lesbian at a time under law. But constitutionally you can marry one person over 21 whatever either of your genders or skin colors may be...."

    I addressed that as you saw continuing down my post...


    Statistics point to environment in the categories of abuse, education of the parents, one vs two parent families, economy and minority status. I don't believe there are any credible statistics that suggest adverse affects on a child raised by two gay parents compared to straight parents. All other factors being equal.

    Oh yes and as we evolve in our thinking and study of our founding documents we see that excluding women, minorities and now gays/lesbians from our great experiment in freedom is hypocritical.

    To that question I can only quote some old spiritual saying, "All God's people gotta be free."

    Our very existence as a country is entwined with the notion that the majority shall not bulldoze over the minority. Our first minorities were religiously persecuted. Next probably came the Baptists persecuted in our own land and then of course the Catholic Irish. We are always afraid of big groups who are different for we fear that they will "take over". However that same foundation allows us to eventually meld these groups into "Americans".
    I never met a bigot who was bullied but let me think about that a moment. Perhaps that is how a bigot feels deep inside? I don't know. I don't call people bigots unless I know them personally and have my facts. It's been a long time since I encountered raw bigotry personally. But maybe I am not so sensitive.


    One reason countries do better with families as opposed to single people is married people tend to put the family and community at the forefront of their efforts. A single person usually is so untethered with "nothing to lose" they'll be here one year and then pack up and go see what Guatemala is like or take a job as a waiter and then decide to apply for a college loan and live in a dorm. You must have SOME consistency throughout a population to ensure a good tax base, a proper number of workers, etc. Also protecting your family is a good instinct that helps the entire community reduce crime.

    Well that's a whole nuther story. The reason multiple marriage partners is discouraged I assume is the tax structure and the chaos it would cause in that area. It is purely a religious preference and yes while I like to say live and let live, I think polygamy would hurt our society much worse than monogamous gays or lesbians.

    I wouldn't fear "being called a bigot" too much in regards to homosexuals (unless you encounter some really mean lesbians >>kidding) because homosexuals appear much more passive than American Blacks were when people who had always used it were in terror of dropping the "n" word.
     
  25. MAYTAG

    MAYTAG Active Member

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    Are you saying that gays trespass against you by like liking each other?
     

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