Anzac Day

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by Panzerkampfwagen, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. Oxyboy

    Oxyboy New Member

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    No we don’t celebrate war, we remember the sacrifices of those that served….

    Then we celebrate.

    I think the AFL ANZAC game is a classic depiction of OZ. 90,000 people stand in silence to honor those that served, respect the national anthem, then roar into life and celebrate our freedom and great country.

    Awesome.
     
  2. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but......... for us ANY public holiday is a celebration! Lols!

    Truth is - as with most things - it is a mixture.

    There are those who use it as remembrance, those for whom it is simply a day off, those for whom it is double time and a half and those for whom it is an inconvenience because the shops are, well, you know, shut!!. Then there are those who would use it to glorify war - but I think fewer here than in other countries and for that, at least in part, we have to thank Damien Parer who gave such a great legacy of photographs

    kokoda_wideweb__470x358,0.jpg
     
  3. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Oxyboy,
    I am more onboard with Bowerbird, some do remember silently, while others don't know how to behave appropriate.
    However it can be said, that we do glorify our army.
    Regards
     
  4. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    Why don't we remember the innocent men and women who were killed at the hands of our soldiers? After all, most of the people we fought against were simply fighting for their country, just as we were fighting to protect ours. Yet we are the heroes and they are the enemy. They were innocent, too, and should also be remembered.

    I don't commemorate Anzac Day because I hate the idea of thanking our soldiers for their bravery and sacrifice when we ignore the sacrifices and deaths of the innocent people we fought against. Until we remember them all, I won't ever be taking part in any sort of memorial.

    If that offends some, well, I can't help that.
     
  5. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    That's called Remembrance Day. It falls on the 11th of November.

    Anzac Day is about our soldiers.
     
  6. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    I doubt any Australian bothers to remember the innocent Japanese or Germans etc who we killed. Anzac Day might be about our soldiers, but I cannot take part in a memorial when I am always wondering how many innocent lives they took. They could be alive because they killed an innocent person. That gets to me.
     
  7. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    Goal post, shifted.
     
  8. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    Well Mak you are very brave to state such a conviction. What get's me is the fact, that we only celebrate our heroes from WW1 and WW2, but for our wrongful/shameful involvement in Vietnam and Iarq we haven't got a *sorry day*. But with this opinion we are a minority anyway....
    Wasn't one main reason or purpose of Anzac Day and Rememberance Day to commemorate those events, that not another war will ever be fought?
     
  9. slipperyfish

    slipperyfish Well-Known Member

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    Mak I don't want to misunderstand what you posted so I take it by innocent lives you do not mean the soldiers but those uninvolved civilians that ended up collateral damage. Like every conflict there is always those that die needlessly. This includes those that were sent forth by foolish politicians.

    Having lived with a father and grandfather that were both involved in conflicts I can tell you that those soldiers that had the unfortunate distinction of taking another human life will always remember and reflect for the rest of their lives.

    ANZAC day is about rememberence, commemoration, and reflection. It is no celebration for onlookers. For the soldiers it may be a celebration of friendship and mates lost needlessly.

    Mak please do not condemn the soldiers, as they were and are victims the same as the innocent you speak of. These men live with the nightmares and guilt everyday of their lives. I wonder if those responsible for sending them do the same.

    I highly doubt it.
     
  10. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    Churchill quickly sought a face to face meeting with President Roosevelt in Washington. His purpose was to persuade President Roosevelt to adhere to the secret agreement between the American and British governments to give top priority to defeating Nazi Germany, and not to divert any of America's vast resources to halting Japanese aggression in the Pacific. Churchill appreciated that the "Germany First" war strategy would put Australia, British Malaya, the Philippines, and the rest of South-East Asia at serious risk of Japanese occupation if Japan entered the war on the side of Germany and Italy. However, this prospect does not appear to have greatly concerned Churchill whose top war priorities were the defence of Britain, support for the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany, defending the Suez Canal, and protecting India. As Churchill saw it, the Philippines, Australia, British Malaya, and the Dutch East Indies could be recovered from Japanese occupation after Germany had been defeated.

    On 14 December 1941, Churchill set off for Washington on board the newly commissioned battleship HMS Duke of York. He was accompanied by his top military chiefs and civilian advisers. The British Prime Minister and his entourage arrived in Washington on 22 December 1941, and an intensive series of secret discussions followed that later became known as the Arcadia Conference.

    Churchill was alarmed to find on his arrival in Washington that the American people were calling for an all-out war of vengeance against Japan. The American people were unaware that their President, and his military chiefs, had secretly committed the United States to defeating Germany as its top priority, and that this agreement meant holding a defensive line between Alaska, Hawaii, and the Panama Canal. They were also unaware that the "Germany First" plan effectively made everything west of that line expendable, including American military forces in the western
    Pacific and Australia.

    http://www.pacificwar.org.au/battaust/Britain_betrays_Australia.html



    YES, Australian troops died protecting the likes of these arse-holes.
     
  11. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

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    And yet we are almost like them, as fat as them, having very similar lifestyles, similar views on the world, the same enemies, go to the same wars, speak the same lingo without the knowledge of a foreign language and have their petrol guzzling motors under the bonnets of our icons. And we do as little as them in order to combat climate change...
    Ask anyone outside Australia, we are regarded as the 51'st US state...
    Culldav, I understand what you are on about, but we are much closer to the US nowadays than to our ex intellectual ancestry, Europe.
     
  12. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    I just wonder would the US do the same thing to Australia today as what Britain did to the people of Iceland in 1941 “if” it suited the USA's needs.

    In June, 1941, the US (with about 3000 soldiers) occupied Iceland. Iceland had been invaded by Britain in May 1940. The Iceland government protested the British Invasion. Britain handed over the control of Iceland to the USA in June 1941.

    http://wiki.answers.com/Q/When_did_the_US_enter_World_War_2

    Surely four wars is enough for Australia to gain some independence & autonomy, or is Australia going to be subservient to the US forever?

    Just wonder how many school children get taught that Germany wasn't the only country to invade & occupy another country during WW2
     
  13. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    Very noble of you Makedde. I'm German born, I immigrated to Australia with my parents in 1960. We are from Hamburg,a city totally destroyed by Allied bombing. My parents were children during WWII. My mother, a city girl, used to tell me stories how she spent days and nights in air raid shelters. She would go back into the classroom only to find empty seats.

    My grandfather (my mother's father) was conscripted into the Wehrmacht, made sargent and was captured by the British in Norway in 1942. He spent the rest of the war in POW camp in England. Being a five star chef by profession, it was his duty to cook for the officer's mess. When truce was declared, the British officers presented my grandfather with a lead crystal ashtray. My mother still has the ashtray. My grandfather died in 1966.
     
  14. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    What a load of horse(*)(*)(*)(*). We are independent. We are also in alliances.
     
  15. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    A poem by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk written in 1934. These words are inscribed on a monument at Anzac Cove.


    "Those heroes that shed their blood
    and lost their lives;
    You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country.
    Therefore rest in peace.
    There is no difference between the Johnnies
    and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side
    here in this country of ours.
    You, the mothers,
    who sent their sons from far away countries,
    wipe away your tears;
    your sons are now lying in our bosom
    and are in peace.
    After having lost their lives on this land they have
    become our sons as well."
     
  16. aussiefree2ride

    aussiefree2ride New Member

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    Just a quick note pointing out a couple fo facts that can easily be over looked if one doesn`t think too deeply on this subject. Nobody hates war more than soldiers. It has always been expected that young men defend their country with their lives, there really is no noble option. There were some young men in the town that I grew up in, who hadn`t gone to WW2, for the rest of their lives, they were looked down on by most people as gutless filth, particularly by the women. Anzac day is a memorial to those who sacrificed so much, so we could live in peace. It was often said by returned soldiers, that those who had died were the lucky ones. We really do live in the lucky country, but it didn`t get to be that way all by itself, and it won`t stay that way without some effort and common sense to conserve it.
     
  17. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    Psssst. It's in the OP.
     
  18. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    These words are worth repeating 100 fold.

    psssssst,, these words have always moved me.
     
  19. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    He's the only enemey commander with a memorial on Anzac Parade, Canberra.
     
  20. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    We are independent. LOL LOL We are in an alliance LOL LOL

    Sometimes the facts and truth is very revealing and confrontational. Maybe the people of Iceland thought they were "independent" in 1941 also, but that didn't save them from being invaded by the British or occupied by the US - did it? A leopard never changes its spots!!
     
  21. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    We're occupied now?
     
  22. lizarddust

    lizarddust Well-Known Member

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    Yes..

    A good friend of mine whose grandfather fought at Galipoli and his father fought in New Guinea and Borneo during the Second World War.

    My friend has been to the dawn service at Anzac Cove twice. What he said was, the Turks have this wonderful fondness for Australians and great respect for the ANZACs.
     
  23. culldav

    culldav Well-Known Member

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    Who said we're occupied? Just show me the link or evidence where I said that Australia was occupied?
     

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