Part 35 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

You say we should think for ourselves and make our own minds up, but then you say you listen to modern Bible scholars!
Anyway the term "scholars" can mean anything, for example I know ordinary Christians who have a fantastic knowledge of the Bible even though they haven't been through Theology College. And remember, a fool with a degree or diploma is still just a fool..

However we agree about organised religion, I rejected the rigmarole of organised religion many years ago because Jesus said-
"Call nobody teacher except me" (Matt 23:8-10)
and he's easy enough to understand-
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)
The people also realised that it was Jesus and not the Old T that they should focus on-
"Let us fix our eyes on Jesus,the author and finisher of our faith" (Heb 12:2)
"There is one mediator between God and men,- the man Jesus Christ" (1 Tim 2:5)

So although the Old T is interesting, it's the New T that should take precedent because Jesus saves, not the Old T....

 

Why shouldn't we believe them?..

 

My angle on this? Trying to get people to think for themselves, study for themselves. So much that the Church has taught down the years is clearly wrong. Christmas is an example. The story enacted by groups based on Scripture is really a farce. It's based on 'Matthew's Nativity story which is made up of quotes from the OT which are clearly nothing to do with the birth of a baby 'Messiah' in Christian terms. 'Matthew' has simply looked back on the life of this Jewish teacher and written his Gospel to make him 'foretold'. None of the other Gospels even mention what Matthew says. The others may have written for a different readership, but surely a biography of a person must include his birth.

I have no religious views now. I am none of the above, though I used to believe in the tooth fairy. That went out when they refused to increase the amount given for a tooth in line with inflation.

Christianity doesn't scare me. It's the intolerance of religion that scares me. The belief that the god of one's religion is the only, and right, god, so the rest are wroing. In my opinion the Qu'ran is a hotchpotch of conflicting statements, the Bible is made up of some Jewish History, some myths and some stories in which the god of the OT is portrayed as vengeful and the God of the NT is portrayed as forgiving. Islam mixes the two. And yes, I have read the Qu'ran in English.

 

Huh? Study this for a detailed verse-by-verse travelogue..-
http://www.ccel.org/bible/phillips/CN160-TRAVELS.htm

TRAVELS and ACTS OF JESUS, YEAR ONE - c AD27-28
EARLY MINISTRY IN JUDEA, SAMARIA AND GALILEE
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TRAVELS and ACTS OF JESUS, YEAR TWO - c AD28-29
FIRST PREACHING TOUR OF GALILEE
SECOND PREACHING TOUR OF GALILEE
------------------------------------------------------------------
TRAVELS and ACTS OF JESUS, YEAR THREE - c AD29-30
THIRD PREACHING TOUR OF GALILEE
JESUS PREACHES AND HEALS IN SYRIAN-PHOENICIA, ITUREA and TRACHONITIS, THE DECAPOLIS
LATER MINISTRY IN JUDEA
THE LAST FEW MONTHS - c AD30
HIS MINISTRY IN PEREA (MODERN JORDAN)
THE FINAL JOURNEY TO JERUSALEM
---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Yes I've heard about ex-"christians" such as you mate, so as a matter of interest can you tell us what made you decide to stop liking Jesus?
And what exactly do you mean by the term "practising Christian"? I mean are there such things as non-practising Christians?..

 

Because there is no corroborating evidence and extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

 

Only if you believe Christian teaching. That is based on the so called prophecies of Jesus in the OT.
As I say, I do not believe that there are these prophecies of Jesus. The Tanakh is all about Israel. Quotes taken out of context make the quotes invalid. By taaking things out of their context we can prove almost anything.

Of course I listen to modern Bible scholars. They don't have to have diploma's to be excellent students of the Bible. The art of studying is to 'listen' to both sides and judge between them. That's how decision are made - as in a court with a Jury. Over the last century more knowledge has been found to give us a different perspective on Scripture. 4 centuries ago people were questioning the authorship of some of Paul's Epistles. in recent (comparatively) years we have learn to understand the different styles of writing in both NT and OT. The 'Lucifer' of Isaiah has been exposed as a proud Babylonian King. We know mre about ancient Palestine which helps our understanding of the writings of the time. Shakespeare is better understood by knowing the background on which he wrote.

Having a fantastic knowledge of the Bible does not mean understanding it. I have knowledge of other things and could quote you from them, but I don't really understand them. My son is a Master of BioChemistry from Oxford and has taught me a lot, but I wouldn't debate with anyone as, despite what I know, I don't really understand it.

 

1- Surprisingly, atheist Isaac Asimov speculated that the Flood could have been caused by a meteor hitting the Indian Ocean and sending a tsunami up the Tigris/Euphrates valley, washing the Ark up to the Turkish mountains.
2- In a sense we're all made of dust, because plants suck up nutrients from the earth and we take it in through fruit and veg, and through the meat of animals and poultry that have eaten plants.
3- A TV science docu a few years ago drew the conclusion that the Exodus could well have happened, including the 10 Plagues.
4- If you've got God watching your backs you can wander anywhere and keep smiling..

 

Good for you mate, I've been telling people for years to think for themselves rather than let organised religion do their thinking for them..
But we differ because you seem to think other religions are valid even though they don't have the Son of God himself in them!
I mean, if you bought a boxed set of 'The History of Rock n' Roll' DVD's and found it didn't include Elvis, you'd be outraged and take it back and swap it for one that did..

 

It was his 37 miracles more than anything else that elevated him to superstardom..
Jesus said- "I know where I came from and where I am going, but you have no idea where I come from or where I am going....you are of this world, I am not of this world...though you do not believe me, believe the miracles...I'll tell you things hidden since the creation of the world" (John 8:14/ 8:23/10:38/Matt 13:35)

 

Many Christians will tell you that they can "feel" God and Jesus inside them, empowering them and making them confident, goodnatured, unshakeable and fearless, and that that's all the proof they need that a God exists, it's a POWER thing..
Jesus said- "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you" (John 14:20)

"Our gospel came to you not simply with words, but also with POWER.."-1 Thess 1:5
"For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of POWER"- 2 Tim 1:7
"I am full of POWER, judgement and might by the spirit of the Lord"- Micah 3:8
"The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world...they have divine POWER to demolish strongholds"- 2 Cor 10:4
"Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty POWER" (Ephesians 6:10)
"After Jesus spent the night in prayer,everybody tried to touch him because POWER was coming from him"- Luke 6:12-19
Jesus said - "Someone touched me, I know that POWER has gone out from me." ( Luke 8:46)

Anybody can "touch" Jesus simply by liking him and therefore making the vital connection to get a power download..

"My Christian faith is my backbone"- Bear Grylls

 

Yet you think the flood didn't happen. I guess because that would fly in the face of God killing innocent children, babies, and fetuses.
If God has one's back for 1M people to wander in a desert for 40yrs, he can cause the flood.
Yes, essentially we are a form of dust, carbon based life. But the creation story of Adam didn't have him evolving into a human form. I am sure you must be aware of that.
But as all believers do, they pick and choose what they like and don't like. They have to, or their who belief system falls apart. Which isn't a bad thing. One can take the best of Jesus' teaching and leave out the garbage surrounding details of events and still have a good belief system.

 

Well, other religions claim they had crucified Saviours. The Jews all believe they are sons of God. As a Jew so did Jesus. You only have to alter the words 'the Son' to 'a son' and hey presto you have the Jewish preacher. And vice versa.
If I bought a boxed set of DVD's THAT would be a MIRACLE.

 

It was his 'supposed' miracles claimed by the writer of - mainly Matthew.

What is interesting is that in the time of Jesus there were around 30 other writers, both Pagan and Jewish, that never mention Jesus at all. You would think that if he was so wellknown they would have written of him.

 

There are many things that bring on experience such as you mention. Myself? I love classical music. Given the right time and the right music I have the sense of being taken out of myself and refreshed at the end.

 

Right, for example it's very extraordinary for people to claim Jesus never existed, considering great crowds of thousands plus the Roman garrison saw him..

 

Who me? Nah mate, I said it could have happened, or it could just be a metaphor with a message about the "spiritual survival" of the fittest.
For example Noah listened to God and saved himself and his family, but others didn't listen and went up the spout.

 

Jesus said more than once that he was THE Son of God. You can change that to "A" if you want to mess with scripture, but include me out..
As for the "crucified saviours" of other religions, where are they?
And if Jews are sons of God, I'm a son of Buzz Lightyear..

 

Yes I can. It's obvious that you can't. You're having a hard time, or more likely
refusing to, accept the undeniable fact.

If you can't accept the fact that this manuscript is from around 100 AD. then
you have the problem not I.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Matthew

 

Yes I can. The topic ecco and I are discussing is about who wrote the Gospels.
Here's the evidence.
http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=490783&p=1067003471#post1067003471

Do you suppose you could, just once, contribute to a discussion instead of violating
PF rules?

 

There is zero evidence outside the Bible of the great crowds of thousands or that he was seen by the Roman garrison.

Should we believe WW3 was fought in the 1980's just because Tom Clancy said it did in Red Storm Rising?

 

There is no valid evidence to the contrary. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John wrote
the Gospels.

Maybe you should study biblical history.

 

Plenty of evidence. Maybe you should heed your own advice.

 

Here's stuff NOT in the bible-

http://listverse.com/2012/07/06/10-books-not-included-in-the-new-testament/
Apocalypse of Peter
Epistle of Barnabas
Infancy Gospel of James
Shepherd of Hermas
1st Clement
Gospel of Thomas
The Didache
Lost Epistle to the Corinthians
Third Letter to the Corinthians
Gospel of Mary Magdalene

As for WW3, there's not a single witness to it, so my awesome logic and powers of deductive reasoning tell me it never happened..

 

There's not a single witness to the events of the Bible either. Just texts that claim there were witnesses. So why not apply the same deductive reasoning you do with Red Storm Rising?