Native Born Is Not Natural Born

Discussion in 'United States' started by Frogger, Apr 21, 2010.

  1. Frogger

    Frogger Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There are some who are making a big thing about the fact that Barack Obama might have been born in Hawaii despite the fact that there is no proof that he indeed was. Even if he was, does that make him a natural born citizen of the United States?



    Not "native" or "naturalized" or "citizen," but only "natural born" citizens can hold the office of president.
    The Bottom Line on Natural Born Citizen
    By JB Williams Wednesday, April 21, 2010
    I write this follow up in response to reader mail regarding my column DC Knows that Obama is Ineligible for Office. Even many conservative columnists and pundits seem confused on the issue of natural born citizen, even though the matter is really quite clear.

    History answers the question of what “natural born citizen” means, and leaves NO wiggle room for debate or wishful agenda-driven interpretations.
    The term was first used by the British Royal family. The question at the time was how to keep the Royal bloodline intact when members of the Royal family traveled abroad extensively, often giving birth to offspring while abroad, therefore bringing the issue of “native born” into question.
    Native is a term relative to geography, where a person is at the time of birth. This issue came up as a challenge to John McCain during his 2008 bid for the White House, as he was born “off base” at a local hospital in Panama while his father was stationed on a Navy base in Panama.
    As a diversionary tactic to lead obvious questions away from Barack Hussein Obama, some challenged McCain’s “natural born” status as a presidential candidate on the basis that he was not “native born” on US soil, or on US territory, the US Naval Base in Panama. Congress, therefore, passed a resolution proclaiming McCain a “natural born citizen” on the basis that he was the “natural born” son of two US citizens, more specifically, the natural born son of a US Naval Commander.
    However, no such resolution exists for Barack Hussein Obama , and here’s why;
    The term “native” relates to the geographic location of birth. But the term “natural” relates to the “laws of natural,” ergo family lineage or the bloodline of the father.
    The term “natural born citizen” next appears in the Law of Nations, a treaty between nations which established certain universal standards, one of which being the term “natural born citizen.”
    The related passage from Vattel’s book on the Law of Nations reads as follows;
    “The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights. The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent. We shall soon see whether, on their coming to the years of discretion, they may renounce their right, and what they owe to the society in which they were born. I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.”
    Note the following text—“As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.”
    Further clarification—“The society is supposed to desire this, in consequence of what it owes to its own preservation; and it is presumed, as matter of course, that each citizen, on entering into society, reserves to his children the right of becoming members of it. The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children;”
    And the final blow to Barack Hussein Obama—“I say, that, in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen; for, if he is born there of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth, and not his country.”
    The subject of “natural law” found in the Law of Nations is entirely consistent with the Royal British purpose of the term “natural born citizen.” It keeps the family bloodline intact on the basis of the father’s blood, aka “natural law.” It is the source from which our nation’s Founding Fathers entered those words into the US Constitution, under Article II—Section I—Clause V;
    “No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President;”
    Not “native” or “naturalized” or “citizen,” but only “natural born” citizens can hold the office of president.
    The matter is quite clear and it is on this basis that I have written that John Sidney McCain is indeed a “natural born citizen” of the United States, and the Barack Hussein Obama is not, no matter where in the world he might have been born.
    A Hawaiian birth certificate for Barack Hussein Obama solves nothing, other than curiosity. A “certification of live birth” means even less, as it only confirms that a child was indeed “born live”—with no reference as to where that birth took place, or who attended or witnessed that birth.
    Some argue that the XIV Amendment altered the meaning of the term “natural born citizen.”
    “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States;” However, the XIV Amendment makes no mention of “natural born citizen” as it was written to address issues of “immigration” and “naturalization,”—which excludes any redress regarding “native” or “natural born” citizens of the Unites States. In short, “natural born” is the exact opposite of “naturalized.” They are two completely different subjects and as we know, “naturalized citizens” cannot hold the office of President, though they are indeed “citizens” with otherwise equal rights. As Barack Hussein Obama’s stated birth father, Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. was at no time in his life a citizen of the United States, but rather a British subject and native citizen of Kenya, it is not possible for Barack Hussein Obama, Jr. to be a “natural born citizen” of the United States. It is therefore not possible for Barack Hussein Obama Jr. to be a constitutionally qualified resident of the people’s White House. Does it matter? Does the “will of the people” trump the US Constitution via the outcome of an election which happened as a result of fraud, in which the candidate concealed the fact that he is not a “natural born citizen?”
    Only the people can decide…
    But I submit to every American the idea that if Article II—Section I of the US Constitution is no longer worthy of protection and preservation, then nothing in that document matters anymore.
    If we fail to uphold Article II—Section I of the US Constitution, then we have failed to uphold, protect, preserve or defend any part of the US Constitution or the American way of life.
    If the US Constitution no longer stands, then the United States of America no longer stands.
    Is there a more pressing issue on the table today?
    http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/22262
     
  2. keymanjim

    keymanjim New Member Past Donor

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    They wont accept it.
    Anything less than blind obedience to obamamessiah will be scorned, ridiculed or outright ignored.
    Stand by.
     
  3. toddwv

    toddwv Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is in fact proof that Barack Obama was born in Hawaii and yes it does make him a natural born citizen.
     
  4. mertex

    mertex New Member Past Donor

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    Bwahaha! Another Birther.

    Give it up man, anyone who is still on the "Obama not a US citizen" kick, is just a disgruntled conservative. Nobody cares anymore. The Republicans in Congress agreed that Obama was born in Hawaii - so you are just wasting space on this forum, and looking pretty outdated.

    H. Res. 593: Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii: 158 Republicans vote aye
    http://www.asmainegoes.com/content/h-res-593-barack-obama-was-born-hawaii-158-republicans-vote-aye
     
  5. toddwv

    toddwv Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We're a nation of laws not a nation of birthtard opinions...well at least not until Arizona decided to start its war on non-whites.

    Current US code clearly states that Obama was a citizen at birth and therefore a natural born citizen:

    Face it the birthtards have lost and now they just want to change the rules of the game. What a bunch of whiny ass (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)es...
     
    Tedminator and (deleted member) like this.
  6. Frogger

    Frogger Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, we are a nation of laws and one of those laws says that in order to be eligible to be president you must be a natural born citizen of the United States. All Obama has to do is stop fighting it and produce a valid birth certificate. All your smarmy name calling won't change the fact that he stil has not done so.
     
  7. toddwv

    toddwv Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Obama has produced valid proof of his birth. He's the President of the United States. You need to learn to live with that for a minimum of another 2 years and 8 months. Trying to pass off Jim Crow-esque requirements ex post facto isn't the way to handle it.

    Though I'm not happy that Lakin is stupid enough to allow himself to face a court-martial over this lame and shallow assertion that Obama isn't good enough to president, he has made his bed and will have to lay in it and when he does I will thoroughly enjoy all the dismayed whining of the birthtards that will inevitably follow.

    Their tears of frustration taste so, so sweet...

    [​IMG]
     
  8. 06AlphaGriot

    06AlphaGriot Banned

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    Hilarious.

    Obama has always been a citizen of the United States. All that is actually required is that a person be born in the United States. Folks born in the United States are automatically US citizens...regardless of the status of their parents. For example, a baby born in the US to an "illegal" immigrant is a US citizen. And eligible to be President of the United States. Just so you know.

    Really funny that the racist, ridiculous "birther" nonsense continues.

    I read frogger's response that Obama would have to be a "natural born citizen" in order to be eligible for President. But clearly, this is not correct.

    Please read for comprehension:

    “No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President".

    Read it and weep. That racist nonsense about "natural born" is pretty silly. But the fact is that both a natural born citizen and a citizen of the United States are eligible. Unless they are "naturalized" citizens like Arnold Swarzenneger. He can't be President. But any of his children can be. Even though he is Austrian and was an illegal alien.

    Poor frogger. Just can't except a Black President. Get used to it. There is gonna be about 6 more years of that.
     
  9. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    You're misreading that, as the underlining should make clear. It doesn't apply to anyone alive today. It was merely language that allowed people born before adoption of the Constitution to run for President.
     
  10. 06AlphaGriot

    06AlphaGriot Banned

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    OKay. If you say so. In any case, anyone born in America is a citizen and eligible to be President. Period.
     
  11. mertex

    mertex New Member Past Donor

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    So what the hell are they whining for? The Republicans in Congress all voted "aye" that Obama was born in Hawaii - end of story, move on, people!

    H. Res. 593: Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii: 158 Republicans vote aye
     
  12. BirthersAreLiars

    BirthersAreLiars New Member

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    You are incorrect, and will never be more incorrect.

    A "native" is most definitely a natural born citizen.

    From Minor v Happersett:

    At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.

    Notice: "Natives" is synonymous with "natural born citizen."

    From Luria v United States:

    "Under our Constitution, a naturalized citizen stands on an equal footing with the native citizen in all respects, save that of eligibility to the Presidency."

    Notice that a "native" is eligible to the presidency.

    Native Born is also Natural Born.

    From Minor v. Happersett:

    "...Mrs. Virginia Minor, a native born, free, white citizen of the United States, and of the State of Missouri..."


    There are only two types of U.S. citizens: natural born or naturalized. If you were born a citizen, you are natural born. Regardless of your circumstances of birth, if you are a U.S. citizen at birth, you're natural born.
     
  13. mertex

    mertex New Member Past Donor

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    All those who keep insisting that Obama was not born in the US, are displaying a bigoted ignorance. Thanks for sharing.
     
  14. Alucard

    Alucard New Member Past Donor

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    It is now 2015 and this argument still goes on but it has dwindled to a point. In my opinion, Obama was born in Hawaii.
     
  15. Pax Aeon

    Pax Aeon Well-Known Member

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    `
    Agreed. This issue has been legally settled long time ago. Now, anyone can spout an opinion about it but it means absolutely nothing unless someone prevails in a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of this issue by using this opinion.
     
  16. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The author of this piece is extremely ignorant..

    Natural born, Native Born or Citizen from Birth is the same thing. There are only two kinds of US Citizenship.. natural born and naturalized.

    Obama's father was in the US when the baby was born on a student visa which means he was under US Jurisdiction.. but even that doesn't matter since Obama junior was born on US soil.
     
  17. mertex

    mertex New Member Past Donor

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    I seriously doubt than anyone truly believes that Obama was not born in the US.....conservatives only continue to spout that in the hopes that some ignorant person hears it and believes it. They hate Liberals and the Democratic party to that extent......they'll repeat a lie that they don't really believe themselves.
     
  18. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Nonsense.. There are only two types of US citizenship.. Natural born and naturalized.

    Read the statutes.

    Obama was born in Hawaii.. and his father was in the US on a student visa and under US jurisdiction.
     
  19. mertex

    mertex New Member Past Donor

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    Don't know who you are responding to, but if you're responding to me....I wasn't arguing with you....:frown:
     
  20. JakeJ

    JakeJ Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I wasn't personally present when Obama was born. But apparently nearly everyone in the country and on this forum was. It appears that at least 100 million people, maybe 200 million people saw him being born. Amazing!
     
  21. BirthersAreLiars

    BirthersAreLiars New Member

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    Well, he's produced to two birth certificates, which are self-authenticating and prima facie proof of his birth in Hawaii. It's good enough to satisfy any court that he was born in Hawaii. Therefore, the burden of proof is on you to prove that he was NOT born in Hawaii.
     
  22. Phyxius

    Phyxius Well-Known Member

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    I'm loving this thread. The President is a "natural-born citizen" as much as Rafael Edward Cruz is, and for the EXACT SAME REASON.
     
  23. yguy

    yguy Well-Known Member

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    Assuming you refer to Ted Cruz, not really. Having been born outside the US, his claim to natural born citizenship rests on Title 8, whereas if Obama was born in HI his NBC status rests on the 14A citizenship clause.
     

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