The solution is one secular state

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by Liberal Saudi, Jun 29, 2010.

  1. Liberal Saudi

    Liberal Saudi New Member

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    In response to all who believe that a two state solution is the best solution, I'd like to remind them of states which were divided into two and became sworn enemies ever since.

    Examples? N and S Korea. You know what's going on there. The great enmity between the czecs and slovaks. Serbs, Coatians, Bosnians etc...

    I am not going to give excuses for why jews think Palistine is their home. I will say why non-jews have the right to live in Palestine as well. This topic has been thoroughly exhausted.

    What we need to understand is that we are all human beings. The genetic differences between say the chinese and Africans is less than 1 in a million. Looking at the genetic differences between Arabs and Isaerilis, it is less than 1 in a billion.

    The only reason why they hate each other is their religious beliefs.

    The U.S. have given the world a good example of how religions can live side by side. Yes there are still problem there but no one in the US believe that dividing the country or thorwing out minor religions is the solution.

    Although it will be difficult to implement at 1st, I do believe that a single secular state can be the best solution provided it has the following characteristics:
    1- It is completely secular, and does not differentiate between religions in any way.
    2- It does not differentiate between its population according to their color, race or origins.
    3- The political system is completly democratics, but it must remain secular regardless of who rules it.
    4- Its name is acceptable to all.
    5- Its flag does not contain any religious symbols.
    6- It is multi-lingual. Give the people the freedom to decide what language they want to speak.
    7- It is friendly toward its neighbors and does not go to war for a few square meters of land.


    I know many believe that it is impossible for such a solution to work right now, mainly due to the ever growing animosities among its people. But I do believe that with international interventios and close supervision, it can become a reality.

    This solution will have a huge stabilizing impact on the whole region.

    Those who use Israel as an excuse to tighten their grip on Arab populations will be forced to make democratic reforms.

    Islamic extremists will not be able to use Israel and the Americal support it receives as a slogan to recruit more supporters and obtain financial support.

    The 1st decade will be turbulent, and blood will be spilled, but the ever lasting peace it will generate will more than offset the cost.

    Israelis should understand that they live on the same planet as the rest of us. They cannot isolate themselves from the rest of the world forever.

    The Arab World may not be the most civilized ot democratic place in this planet, but it is susceptible to change. Israel can help transfom the whole region if it has the desire to do so.

    I hope both sides start to think about this solution, especially the Israelis themselves.
     
  2. Nonbeliever

    Nonbeliever New Member

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    That's what I believe, the lunatics on both sides are the reason why the conflict is continuous.
     
  3. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    The other issue is that, separately, the two States would not have the resource (think water), logistical, and economic advantages of a single state and would rely, as is the case today, on foreign aid.

    But how do you run a single State in which there are two peoples of such disparate views? How about a Swiss canton system? I have never seen this issue discussed. If anyone knows of good discussions on the topic, I would sincerely appreciate some references.
     
  4. Liberal Saudi

    Liberal Saudi New Member

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    Good to know that other Arabs agree with a one state solution. The question is, will Israelis be interested in it?
     
  5. Liberal Saudi

    Liberal Saudi New Member

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    Yes you mentioned an important issue. Two states will fight on the limited resources in the area, especially water.

    Separating the two factions in the 1st decade might be a viable option, then let them gradually mix with each other.
     
  6. DutchClogCyborg

    DutchClogCyborg New Member

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    No.

    Simply the Jews would be a minority and considering how minority's are treated by the Arabs they are not willing to risk being 2nd rate citizens.

    Not to mention that the Palestinian TFR is roughly tripe of the average Israeli, the result will be a huge Jewish uppper class which is well educated and a even bigger palestinians lower class which have virtually no education.

    tensions and tensions will rise till one group kills the other.

    the idea of a one state solution is silly. And will not work, not to mention it is way to late for a one state solution.
     
  7. klipkap

    klipkap Well-Known Member

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    What? OK, so how are minorities treated by the Arabs?
    In general, were the Jews historically better treated by the Christians or by the Muslims? Take whatevr examples you wish to contrast the two other bellicose desert religions - Morocco, Spain, Iraq, Germany ... but, perhaps because of where they lived, the Mizrahi Jews would provide the best example of how the Arabs treated this unique minority.

    Would you rather have been a Jew in Christian 15th century Spain or in 15th century Ottoman empire?
     
  8. Mayerling

    Mayerling Well-Known Member

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    I have always believed in a one state solution for the simple fact that 2 people were promised the same parcel of land.

    Israel cannot prosper without security.

    Palestine cannot be a truly sovereign nation without jurisdiction over their own air and sea space, the freedom of travel etc.
     
  9. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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  10. lardbeetle

    lardbeetle New Member

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    How would the Jews be a minority? Israel is 75.4% Jewish, or 5,720,578 people. There's an additional 20.6% Arabs, or 1,562,922 people. There's then about 2.35 million Arabs in the West Bank, plus around 550,000 Israelis living there illegally. Then there's around 450,000 Arabs in Gaza.

    Jews would still be the majority, even if it was around 55/45.

    As to tensions, they are already bloody rising, and the inept Jewish leadership and the inept Palestinian leadership seem far too stupid to solve the (*)(*)(*)(*) problem.
     
  11. ArabLeague

    ArabLeague New Member

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  12. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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  13. Midnight Express

    Midnight Express New Member

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    Thanks for goodwill.............

    You focused on secularism as if it can sort all problems out.

    Secularism may ease conflict but it is not an absolute solution..........

    Note that both Israel and Palestine are rather secular entities now ıf you compare them to other regional states ıt can be seen easily yet ıt is not solution.

    On the other hand I neither believe Arabs and Israelis can live together in one united state nor they both wish it.........

    two states solution is a better idea
     
  14. Liberal Saudi

    Liberal Saudi New Member

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    The jews already form a large upper class and a sizable middle class in the US. Some Americans despise them for that. All men are greeds. But because the US is a secular state, the jewish minority was able to prosper and not worry about the conservatives views.

    In this one state solution, jews will not be a minority. Infact, even if palistinian refugees return, jews will form at least half the population.

    Regardless of which religion is dominant, a truly secular state will never side with one religion.
     
  15. Liberal Saudi

    Liberal Saudi New Member

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  16. Liberal Saudi

    Liberal Saudi New Member

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    No my friend, Israel and Palestine are not secular. Isaelis consider their country a jewish state, and palestinians use religious slogans to gain the support of muslims and christians alike.

    Yes they will not want to live together in one state if you ask them right now, but if you create it and manage it well, most of them will eventually never want to live anywhere else.

    I think such a project can show that even a world union is possible if we desire it to be successful, and I have no doubt that the day will come when the world will realise that being united is the only way for them to stay alive on this planet.
     
  17. Volker

    Volker New Member Past Donor

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    This is not necessarly so. There are about 6 million Jewish people living in Israel and there are 9.5 million Palestinians. If there would be one state with Israel, Westbank, Gaza and Jerusalem, there would be 6 million Jewish people and 5 million Arab people living in this country. If only half of the 2.6 million Palestinians living in Jordan would move to this new country, Arab people would be the majority.

    This is true, but a truly secular state can still side with one group of people. Turkey is secular, but Turkish and Kurdish interests are handled differently.
     
  18. Liberal Saudi

    Liberal Saudi New Member

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    Many, if not most of the 2.6 million palestinans living in Jordan are now Jordanian citizens. I'm sure many of them would not want to leave a life he/she worked hard to obtain. Also, more than half a million jews living abroad are Israeli nationals, and they have the right to vote.

    As I said, a "truly" secular state will not side with one religion.
     
  19. Texpat

    Texpat Banned

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    Why do Muslim apologists always bring this crap up. How does it pertain to today?

    It doesn't.
     
  20. africanhope

    africanhope New Member

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    There is a difference between the Koreas example and Israel\Palestine. A few differences actually. The Koreas are one cultural group. They have a 'united' history. Their difference is purely idealogical.

    Israel Palestine is two cultural groups, with a separate history, and the difference is more than ideological, it is also cultural, religious etc. So, if the ideology is taken away, the Koreas could possibly unite in peace (like the Germanies did).

    But making one secular state in Israel\Palestine, will not take the differences away, it will only but a veneer over the problem, which will not work.

    AH
     
  21. Volker

    Volker New Member Past Donor

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    Ok, I agree, many of them would not want to leave from Jordan. Many is a wide range, if we talk about 2.6 million people. Add these half a million Jews living abroad, and it's still close. Think about different demographics, too.

    I was not talking about religion in this example.
     
  22. DutchClogCyborg

    DutchClogCyborg New Member

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    They are 3 percent of the American population, not nearly the same as let's say 30-40.

    Jealously does that

    All men are greeds. But because the US is a secular state, the jewish minority was able to prosper and not worry about the conservatives views.



    half the population while having half the TFR means they will shrink to a 20-30 percent figure in less then 50 years, it is not a viable solution and would be demographic suicide.
    You pretend as Secularism works in the Arab World, clearly it does not. there is not a single secular state in the middle east and Islamic extremism is more rampant in the Palestinian territories then any other state.

    Secularism only works when a majority wants it, the Palestinians are far from secular.

    a one state solution is not considered for a good reason, it has no chance.
     
  23. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    Here is the Arab solution for FILASTIN according to HBendor and perhaps the Liberal whatever... LIMAO

    http://www.youtube.com/user/LatmaTV
     
  24. Liberal Saudi

    Liberal Saudi New Member

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    I gave Korea as an example simply to show what division can do to a country. Yes a secular state will not take the take away the differences, but it can teach them how to not let their differences prevent them from working together for the sake of a having a better life for all.
     
  25. Liberal Saudi

    Liberal Saudi New Member

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    Lets say Jews did become a minority. What then?
    They only form 3% of the US population, yet most Jews believe life is better in the US compared to Israel.
    I know it is difficult for you to imagine this happening in the middleeast, but history has shown that everything is possible if people had the will to change.
     

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