Is the universe "finite" or "infinite"

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by TheGreatSatan, Nov 30, 2010.

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Is the universe "finite" or "infinite"

  1. I "believe" only "x" amount of stuff poofed into existence on that fatefull day 14 billion years ago

    5 vote(s)
    21.7%
  2. I "believe" the universe is infinite and goes on forever in every direction

    18 vote(s)
    78.3%
  1. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    I "believe" it is impossible for the universe to be anything other than infinite. If I travel at huge speeds, forever, will I fall off the edge of the universe?
     
  2. k7leetha

    k7leetha Banned

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    Probably not, but maybe you'll pass through into another universe, defined through a difference in physics, that stop at the intangible gate of plasma? :omg:
     
  3. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    No. You will end up back where you started and then go in loops. The universe we see is merely the surface of a 4-dimensional sphere with a definite limited 3D "surface" area but also obviously has no edges.

    (I don't necessarily believe this. The point is to show your premise is flawed.)
     
  4. Incorporeal

    Incorporeal Well-Known Member

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    K7; here is one that you might enjoy reading. I have read the intro page but have not viewed the available video clips. I find it intriguing.

    http://materialintangible.blogspot.com/2010/08/metaphysical-return-of-dead.html
     
  5. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    I used to be really fascinated by this sort of gnostic speak but not so much any more.

    But I will point out that this from the site is wrong:

    "Godel, Originator of The Uncertainty Principle"

    Kurt Godel was responsible for the incompleteness theorems.
    Werner Heisenberg derived the uncertainty principle.
     
  6. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    This would be a finite universe. It has "x" amount of planets for exsample. An infinte universe has an infinte number of planets.

    Na, my premise is cool :)
     
  7. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    so you're sayin the universe is infinate?
     
  8. triffidfood

    triffidfood Active Member

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    I think the problem is, if you could actually travel faster than the speed of light (which I guess is what you're saying) you'd actually be time traveling, in other words effectively zipping through space and time, so only the flying spaghetti monster knows where you'd actually end up...

    Actually, if you zipped forward far enough in time, you'd probably end up at some point where all the energy in the universe (our observable universe) had all been used up, and all that was left were zillions of photons... so effectively nothingness, except not actually nothingness, just very spaced out (separated) packets of light/ radiation.... though what that would look like .....??? :crazy:
     
  9. Doc Dred

    Doc Dred Banned

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    existence is infinite, never ending...all else is finite change
     
  10. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    Some people take some time to get the picture. Why don't boats sail off the end of the earth? Because there is no end. The earth is roughly a sphere, a finite surface area with no edges.

    Now think of the universe as an ocean on a planet with no land masses. You could sail around forever without ever meeting an edge. Without some distinguishing marker, such as stars by which to navigate or a stationary land mass, you might conclude that the ocean on which you sail is infinitely vast. But you would be wrong.
     
  11. Chuz Life

    Chuz Life Active Member Past Donor

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    Is the universe "finite" or "infinite."

    I must be in a silly mood....

    But I had to laugh at the title to this thread.

    Could the answer really be that obvious?

    :cynic:
     
  12. k7leetha

    k7leetha Banned

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    Not necessarily, but possibly. What is the definition of the universe? Would it be possible for another universe to exist alongside ours within the same dimension?
     
  13. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    Are you aware that there are layers of infinity? Georg Cantor proved, for example, that the set of all real numbers (which is infinite) is fundamentally larger than the set of all rational numbers (which is also infinite). He achieved this by assuming the two infinites could be mapped one-to-one, showing that this leads to a contradiction, and concluding ipso facto reductio ad absurdum that the set of real numbers is larger than the set of rational numbers.
     
  14. Chuz Life

    Chuz Life Active Member Past Donor

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    I'm sorry.

    I thought that we were talking about the real or tangible universe... not the intangible mathematical realm O' numbers.

    My bad.
     
  15. xjoe3x

    xjoe3x Banned

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    But we can move in 3 dimensions. Being a sphere does not make in infinite. We can up up, took us a while to do but we can. That would imply an edge, what happens when we try leaving that edge, I have to agree with the OP that it seems to be infinite. If the universe was similar to a sphere, what happens when we go up?
     
  16. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    Cantor called the set of rational numbers aleph null and the set of real number aleph one to distinguish between their cardinalities.

    Then along came Benoit Mandelbrot with his Mandelbrot set. It was eventually proven that the length of the boundary of the Mandelbrot set was aleph one. And using Mandelbrot's new calculation to define the dimensionality of such infinite boundaries, which includes the possibility of partial dimensions since an infinitely long space-filling line can be thought of as being greater than or equal to a one-dimensional line or less than or equal to a two-dimensional plane, it was determined that the dimensionality of the Mandelbrot boundary was exactly 2, which implies that were its length aleph null it would completely fill a plane but since its length is aleph one it is more convoluted than is possible for a line of length aleph null and hence is not plane-filling.
     
  17. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    My ocean analogy drops one dimension. Raise the whole thing up one dimension (as I did in the original post) and think of the observable universe as the 3D surface of a hypersphere. In this case you could fly in a space ship forever and never come to an edge.
     
  18. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    Who knows how many infinities exist? Perhaps none. Perhaps many.
     
  19. Chuz Life

    Chuz Life Active Member Past Donor

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    Hmmmmm.

    Let me not think about that some more!

    :psychoitc:
     
  20. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    I wouldn't want you to bust a synapse.
     
  21. xjoe3x

    xjoe3x Banned

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    Maybe your right, but I just can't conceptualize that.
     
  22. kmisho

    kmisho New Member Past Donor

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    It's difficult to inhere a higher dimension but it has been done.
     
  23. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    Your ocean would have "x" amount of gallons in it. A finite ocean :)
     
  24. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    I am saying that there are no magic universe boarders. All dimension exist in this dimension on an infinite plain :)
     
  25. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    :strong: Hell ya brother :peace:
     

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