Christian Hypocrisy; Biblical God is NOT pro-life

I am sick of people invoking religious arguments as a basis for stirring up anti-abortion drivel. Not only this but many take the base stance that they are right because their church officials tell them how to think. The reality is however that even God advocated abortion where it was appropriate.

These are some quotes to put things into perspective for Christians who either use God as an argument or originally took their anti-abortion stance based on religious conviction.

Even God thought abortion was ok for the right circumstances;

Abortion:
Hosea 9:11-16 Hosea prays for God’s intervention. “Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer. Give them, 0 Lord: what wilt thou give? Give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. . .Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.” Clearly Hosea desires that the people of Ephraim can no longer have children. God of course obeys by making all their unborn children miscarry. Is not terminating a pregnancy unnaturally “abortion”?
Numbers 5:11-21 The description of a bizarre, brutal and abusive ritual to be performed on a wife SUSPECTED of adultery. This is considered to be an induced abortion to rid a woman of another man’s child.
Numbers 31:17 (Moses) “Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every women that hath known man by lying with him.” In other words: women that might be pregnant, which clearly is abortion for the fetus.
Hosea 13:16 God promises to dash to pieces the infants of Samaria and the “their women with child shall be ripped up”. Once again this god kills the unborn, including their pregnant mothers.
2 Kings 15:16 God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah (aka Tiphsah) to be “ripped open”. And the Christians have the audacity to say god is pro-life. How and the hell is it that Christians can read passages where God allows pregnant women to be murdered, yet still claim abortion is wrong?



Infanticide:

1 Samuel 15:3 God commands the death of helpless "suckling" infants. This literally means that the children god killed were still nursing.
Psalms 135:8 & 136:10 Here god is praised for slaughtering little babies.
Psalms 137:9 Here god commands that infants should be “dashed upon the rocks”.

Leviticus 20:9 “For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.”
Judges 11:30-40 Jephthah killed his young daughter (his only child) by burning her alive as a burnt sacrifice to the lord for he commanded it.
Psalms 137:8-9 Prayer/song of vengeance “0 daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”
2 Kings 6:28-29 “And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may eat him today, and we will eat my son tomorrow. So we boiled my son, and did eat him: and I said unto her on the next day, Give thy son, that we may eat him: and she hath hid her son.”
Deuteronomy 21:18-21 “If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.”
Judges 19:24-29 “Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing. But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go. Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man’s house where her lord was, till it was light. And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold. And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place. And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.” To put it very bluntly this poor, young lady was murdered by her mate for being raped.
Exodus 12:29 God killed, intentionally, every first-born child of every family in Egypt, simply because he was upset at the Pharaoh. And god caused the Pharaoh’s actions in the first place. Since when is it appropriate to murder children for their ruler’s forced action?
Exodus 20:9-10 God commands death for cursing out ones parents Joshua 8 God commanded the deaths of 12,000 men, women, and children of Ai. They were all slain in the ambush that was planned by god.
2 Kings 2:23-24 The prophet Elisha, was being picked on by some young boys from the city because of his bald head. The prophet turned around and cursed them in the Lords name. Then, two female bears came out of the woods and killed forty-two of them. You would think that God could understand that sometimes the youthful make childish jokes. Calling someone “bald head” is far from being worthy of death.
Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat.”
1 Samuel 15:11-18 God repents of having made Saul king since Saul refused to carry out God’s commandments (i.e., Saul refused to murder all the innocent women and children.) At least god realizes what an immoral, murderous pig he is on this one.
I Kings 16:34 Laying the foundation for a city using your firstborn child and using your youngest son to set up the gates.
Isaiah 13:15-18 If God can find you, he will “thrust you through,” smash your children “to pieces” before your eyes, and rape your wife.
Jeremiah 11:22-23 God will kill the young men in war and starve their children to death.
Jeremiah 19:7-9 God will make parents eat their own children, and friends eat each other.
Lamentations 2:20-22 God gets angry and mercilessly torments and kills everyone, young and old. He even causes women to eat their children.

Quote source

 

Try Putting Those Passages In The Proper Context!

 

What context would make these actions "proper"?

 

God did it.

 

And there begins the totalitarian idiocy of religion.

 

You liberals like to set up straw men, don't you?

I'll rephrase:

Try putting that which you cherry-picked into context, so you can fully understand them.

 

1. I'm not a liberal.
2. Putting these into context to 'justify them' is virtually impossible since it is the acts themselves that make no sense.
3. They were not cherry picked.

 

These are strawmen? So they're not in the Bible?

 

You're left-wing. Satisfied?

When read in context they make perfect sense.

Yes, they were. They were taken out of context.

I will explain every single one of them tomorrow. I haven't the time right now.

 

You guys should have gone to school in America, me thinks.

This is the straw man.

He purposely mischaracterized my statement.

 

So we shouldn't have gone to school in Australia, a country that beats the (*)(*)(*)(*) out of the US in the OECD PISA tests?

I also didn't realise that you wrote the Bible. How old are you?

 

Maybe in America libertarians are left wing now, but not in Aus.

Oh yeah killing kids and babies makes perfect sense

What context could possibly justify that? Can you seriously think of such a situation?

LOL I'll be waiting.

 

Where and how?

 

Apparently he's God.

 

LOL Yep, just making it up as he goes along.

 

Is that a test H.S. kids take, or college kids? Our colleges are far, far, far better.

I didn't write the Bible. My statement that "take them in the proper context" was, in the brilliant minds of Australians, taken to mean that I thought those acts were "proper." That wasn't my position, yet he attacked it as though it were. That is a straw man. Americans would have understood.

 

Do you suck at chronological order?

 

So you have no answer...

 

You have as yet to pout all these passages into the "context" you keep saying makes them 'completely valid'.

 

1. There is no need for invoking religious arguments
2. Nothing you quote from the bible will make an immoral act you commit against a child moral
3. My advice to you it to not make the mistake of thinking that you speak for God on this issue

Is that clear?
Yes or no

 

I never said they would be "completely valid," so you've just shown yourself to be a liar. I said you would understand them a little better if you were to put them in the proper context.

You must understand that God did not write the Bible and drop it down to earth. It was inspired by God, but written by man. That is the first thing you must understand. The second is how things were dealt with in that time; brutal, archaic laws won the day.

Those are two things to consider.

Before we move on, I would like to say that I doubt you would comprehend what it is I'm telling you. I have not been impressed with your reasoning abilities thus far; the other thread provides a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I answered the question you asked, and you responded with the same question all over again, pretending as though I didn't give you an answer. You use non-facts to make your argument, and you apparently don't read your sources, because one of them contradicted what you said two sentences before. This is not indicative of someone deserving of a meaningful response.

Not only that, but why should any of us bother with someone who copied and pasted from www.evilbible.com; it's not really worth my time.

Start using a little common sense or nobody is going to bother with you.

 

Ok so they are not valid and thus God does indeed advocate infanticide etc. Thanks for conceding.

Oh, so you do think God allowed abortion and infanticide, good.

So? That doesn't change the fact God told them to kill kids.

LOL So that changes it eh? Nice accuse, doesn't hold up unfortunately.

Done and dusted.

No I responded with different questions and you responded with the same answers.

What did it contradict? LOL I provided evidence - you didnt.

This is not indicative of someone deserving of a meaningful response. [/QUOTE]
Let me guess so now you are going to say "oh I cant debate you you arent worth it" and run.

So they aren't form the Bible. Granted the website is weird, but the passages are still true.

So let me guess - you're gonna cop out epically instead of showing how my points are actually wrong and "out of context." LOL

 

Try your argumentative fallacies with someone else, would ya?

Apparently you didn't learn how to debate at that "pretty (*)(*)(*)(*) good private school" you attended.

Did God allow those acts to happen? Sure. God allows a lot of things to happen; he does not cause things to happen.

If you think religion is about God stepping in all the time, you're wrong. (Though being wrong is not something new to you, I imagine.)

Incorrect.

It holds up beautiful; sensible people know this.

You failed to comprehend them. Comprehension problems are rather common in Aussie-land, I've noticed.

No. You responded with the same idiotic question over and over again. I gave you an answer; you didn't comprehend it.

You claimed that fetuses can hear at sixteen-weeks. Your own source contradicted that statement a few lines down.

Didn't they teach you to read in that "pretty (*)(*)(*)(*) good private school" you attended?

Why would I run? Responding to you is like strolling in the park. It takes me about 40-seconds.

Argumentative fallacy.

You shown that you cannot do your own research. Pretty pathetic.

Though, I would think that at that "pretty (*)(*)(*)(*) good private school" you attended, things like that would be taught on a regular basis.

You make no valid points; that's your problem.

P.S. Maybe your parents should get a refund from that "pretty (*)(*)(*)(*) good private school" you attended.

 

LOL Fail.

Oh yeah the school you love so much. LOL You must be jealous.

He did cause by telling them to do it. God loves to kill kids mate.

LOL! Never heard of Jesus then eh?

How?

LOL Thank God most Aussies are like that, it explains a lot.

LOL Yep sure, run along now.

Where? They showed at either 16 weeks or later they could hear as the brain began to operate.

Oh that school where I got an education which others, who I speak to, didn't get a chance to obtain. LOL You know your jealously is a sin. HAHA!

Then respond to my last reply. Oh wait you cant because you lost.

How?

Oh yeh you didnt answer that, probably because you didnt go to any.

LOL A sane person understands them just fine and can see they are perfectly valid.

LOL Jealously is a sin. Oh dont worry you can get God to kill all the kids so the school goes bankrupt.

 

Is this the pitiful response you came up with to hide the fact that you don't know what I'm talking about?

I just thought it was rather funny that someone who thinks himself astute would feel the need to give us his educational resume. I'm trying to figure out why you brought it up when it had nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

In the passages I responded to this evening, God did not tell anyone to do anything. That's where you have it wrong.

You have displayed your ignorance of Christianity yet again.

Figure it out.

It explains why so many of you Australians around here are anti-life and anti-God. You apparently lack the ability to comprehend. In fact, simple comprehension would have cleared up many of those questionable passages immediately.

I fully intend on putting you in your place before I go anywhere.

No. It was nineteen-weeks, not sixteen. You spouted off without reading your source and you were caught. At least have the integrity to admit you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

That was obvious when you claimed that fetuses are not human beings until sixteen-weeks; you attempted to use your own personal beliefs to define humanity. When your logic was found to be in error, you just kept repeating it and contradicting your own sources.

Yet you're so smart....

Yes. You sound like a mature, educated individual.

I did respond. And I must say you really do sound educated; what with declaring victory every three-seconds. Obviously something educated people - who have offered nothing of substance - routinely do.

Figure it out.

Again, you sound like such an educated person. I'm sorry, but I don't feel the need to make up grandiose life stories about myself, unlike some people.

They are anything but valid.

Again, you sound like such an educated person.

In any event:

I will be putting Mega on ignore, because he is hardly worth the time. I encourage everyone to read his idiocy for evidence of this. I respond now only because I want to clear this up for those who may be wondering.

I will attempt to explain the Christian interpretation of these passages.

Let’s start with Hosea 9:11-16.

A better translation is required first, however:

The asinine website Mega copied the material from uses a bad translation. In truth, the Bible doesn’t say these children will be murdered, but that they will never exist. There is a big difference.

That hardly seems necessary to explain, given that the book is a “symbolic representation.” The book is merely an allegory. It was to serve as a warning to the people of Ephraim. It is not generally received as a historical account among Christians.

Here

The next cherry-picked account is Numbers 5:11-21

This is a description of a “curse” that will cause a woman to miscarry if she has cheated on her husband. When a woman was required to go through this ritual, she could either admit having an affair (if she had) or drink the water to prove she was telling the truth. If she was, she’d be fine. If not, she’d miscarry.

Your first impression may be that God is an abortionist. That’s not the case. If the woman had an affair, it was of her own doing. If she lied during the ritual and drank the water knowing she was lying, it was her own doing. She could always admit the truth.

Number 31:17

The following explanation may not be understood unless you have sufficient knowledge of the actual conflict, so I would implore you all to research it.

1). The women had to die because they were a major cause of the conflict. Some of the same problems would have occurred again if they were allowed to live.

2). The children were killed because Moses thought he was doing them a favor. If they had been left to live, many of them would have starved to death, and others would have been taken as slaves by the Moabites.

You have to understand the Bible in its entirety and be able to put things into context. The people made their choices and suffered the consequences. God did not cause these things to happen; the people did.

It might be well for you to consider that the times in which these people lived were radically, radically different. You will also have to consider that man wrote the Bible, not God.

2 Kings 15:16

God doesn’t rip the women open; King Menahem does.

It seems to me that the majority of “problems” atheists find with the Bible is purely the result of their not understanding God. God allows all kinds of things to happen, because we have free will. He doesn’t cause them to happen.

I will respond to the rest of the passages tomorrow.