Is Owning A Slave Really That Bad?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Makedde, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    This subject came up in another forum. I was asked if I was pro slavery and I had to say not exactly, as I think it depends on how well you treat them.

    I am not talking about the slaves of years ago, who were treated like dogs, beaten, starved, and even killed. I am thinking more of modern day slaves, people who work for you without pay.

    Consider this: If I bought a slave from another person, and had them work for me, and I provided them with a roof over their head, clothes to wear, food to eat, medical care when needed, decent working hours but I didn't pay them a cent, why would this be wrong?

    As far as I know it would be wrong to employ someone without paying them at least minimum wage, but if I have opened my house to them and am caring for them, where is the problem?
     
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  2. Joe Six-pack

    Joe Six-pack Banned

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    If a person volunteers for servitude in exchange for food and shelter, that's different. But the hitch of the issue is whether or not it's voluntary. If it's not, it's wrong no matter what. I do not believe people are property fundamentally.
     
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  3. Makedde

    Makedde New Member Past Donor

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    If the person needs care and a job, and shelter, and I can provide that to them with a little in exchange, then I'm not seeing the issue, be it voluntary or not. If they didn't want to work for you, who is to say that if you treated them well, they wouldn't change their minds?
     
  4. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

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    Indentured servitude is still socially accepted practice in many cultures. Here where I work for an Indian Immigrant family, they have several houseboys that are literally indentured servants who recieve little in the way of pay or benefits. It's voluntary slavery and it's culturally acceptable because the houseboys are among the "untouchable" class and they feel it's far better to be an indentured servant in America, than live in India as an untouchable.

    Many Americans orginally came here as indentured servants to the wealthy, including a few on the Mayflower.
     
  5. Joe Six-pack

    Joe Six-pack Banned

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    Keeping someone against their will is kidnapping. It also robs them of their Liberty.

    Brainwashing them into thinking it's acceptable to exchange their slave labor for shelter and food takes is even worse. I hate to sound corny, but, the human soul yearns to breath free. We do not make good pets, as a species.
     
  6. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

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    If they agree to it, of their own free will, absent any coercion whatsoever, then I suppose there's nothing wrong with it. It's a housewife. Not what I'm into, but I can't call it wrong.

    But by "absent any coercion" I mean, there have to be no negative consequences to choosing not to be slave. They would have to still be able to acquire a roof over their head, clothes to wear, food to eat, medical care when needed, decent working hours ... without being a slave. Otherwise, it's still coercive.

    Slavery is always illusionary. The master is always at the mercy of the slave. Remember the words of the sage: "Being someone's (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) is someone else getting you to agree to something that you both know isn't true."
     
  7. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

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    Voluntary "slavery" is called indentured servitude. So to call an indentured servant a slave is actually quite dishonest. Slaves are property, livestock, and can be bought and sold against their will.

    An indentured servant may appear to be a slave, or do slave like work, but in the end they are free to come and go as they please.
     
  8. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    I guess the question you have to ask yourself is would you yourself be comfortable being a slave under those conditions?
     
  9. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    Slavery in any case is bad. Although in this world is accepted a new kind of slavery, and in many ways can be worse than the one that you are explaining. In these days we are wage-slaves, and it is even worse, because many times it isn't enough to have shelter, food or basic clothes.
     
  10. stroll

    stroll New Member

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    Nothing wrong at all there, humans are commodities to be bought and sold just like cattle.
    Cattle pay for their food by giving milk, or being slaughtered at a later stage, humans pay for their stay through work and serving their owners in other ways. It's only fair.
    Of course one needs to install a good dose of discipline, you wouldn't believe how lazy and ungrateful some of them can be!

    Well, not everybody's house is big enough to accommodate slaves, so separate barracks are build for them. Feeding them and providing medicine is quite expensive, so I would not expect any palaces to be built for accommodation, but it should be built near a stream, or water piped to the location, so they can keep themselves clean and maintain the clothes they are given every 5 years (for free!) in pristine condition.
     
  11. stroll

    stroll New Member

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    After they pay their debts, that is.
    Expenses do add up, often to more than their labour is worth, you know.
     
  12. wopper stopper

    wopper stopper New Member

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    why would a slave owner abuse their expensive property?
     
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  13. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not entirely relevant to the question but it's worth noting that historically, not all slaves were treated poorly and the slaves all around the world today (of which there are many) are often treated terribly. Significantly, the empolyers/owners don't always recognise (or at least admit) the treatment is unreasonable.

    The bit where they don't have a choice in the matter. If they were working for someone else for food, clothes and housing but you offered better food clothes and housing for the same work, they should be free to come to work for you. If they don't want to come and work for you, they shouldn't have to.

    When everyone is happy with the arrangement, slavery and employment are pretty much indistinguishable. The key difference is when there is a disagreement about the arrangement. The structure of employment puts worker and employer on equal footing in coming to a compromise on any disagreement. Slavery means the master can impose any change they wish (and all the good intentions in the world aren't going to prevent that being worse for the slave).
     
  14. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

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    True, but there are legal recourses that can be pursued if an indentured servant is somehow kept in debt bondage unfairly I'm sure.

    The only experience I have with indentured servitude is the model practiced by the owners of my company. They provide college education, a place to live, clothes, food, etc.. but in return these houseboys, etc work 12 hours a day or more for virtually no paycheck around the various hotels and the owner's home doing menial tasks like cleanup, housekeeping duties, etc. They are actually important people with alot of responsibility but low social status. It's wierd to see them interact among themselves because their class/caste social system comes out.

    To me, it's voluntary slavery, to them.. it's the only way out of 3rd world poverty they could attain. I can't look down on anyone whos willing to sell themselves into bondage to escape the caste system that by accident of birth destined them for starvation instead.
     
  15. politicalcenter

    politicalcenter Well-Known Member

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    For the same reason people abuse animals.

    The problem with a person working for someone for food and shelter without money is the fact that they become trapped with no way out.

    Then they become slaves against their will with no money to strike out on their own.
     
  16. wopper stopper

    wopper stopper New Member

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    back in the day an african slave cost equivalent of an expensive car. they at least had a guarantee of food and shelter, something not all private citizens had.

    and don't forget they became slaves in africa first.

    ps. how much did european immigrants bring with them to "strike out" ?
     
  17. Paladin

    Paladin New Member Past Donor

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    And that now is a good question .............:twisted:
     
  18. NaturalBorn

    NaturalBorn New Member Past Donor

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    I think what you are describing is Communism/Socialism. No really, not joking or insulting, but that is the basic purest form of that political form.
     
  19. HyenaKiller

    HyenaKiller New Member Past Donor

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    Well, yes slavery is bad..

    But on your premise, what do you do if the "slave" decides NOT to work? What do you to them? What if they are bigger then you and decide that YOU would make a good slave?
     
  20. TrueBluTexan

    TrueBluTexan New Member

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    What makes you think modern day slaves are any better off than in the past?
     
  21. Frogger

    Frogger Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Okay, Makedde, I'm going to fly to Australia, pay some guy $10,000 and take you back to the States as my slave. You will be given a roof over your head, food, clothing and even a small, black and white television to watch. In return, you will have to do all the cooking, keep the house clean and take care of my yard.

    You shouldn't mind or complain because, after all, I will be giving you the necessities of life.
     
  22. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

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    Sounds exactly like a Chinese Factory Worker I saw in a Documentary. He worked 12 hours a day in a snow globe factory and lived in that exact manner with that exact description of possessions. I wonder is it better to be a "free" slave of the State than to a private individual??
     
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  23. Shangrila

    Shangrila staff Past Donor

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    A person is not a commodity, something you buy or sell, he/she is an individual, a human being.
    If you offer someone room and board in exchange for services renders, for whatever reason, you enter into a contract with them, its voluntary, not slavery.
    Yes, slavery is despicable, at any time and any place.
     
  24. anita lied

    anita lied New Member

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    I am a slave.
    My wife and children are my masters.
    I work. They get ALL the money.
    Pain is my comfort. My reward.
    I am Dad.
     
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  25. CB4

    CB4 New Member

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    I agree, when I lived in India we have a few workers that would essentially cook and clean for us. In exchange we provided them food, shelter and paid for their education.

    My grandparents take care of a family still back home. They take of my them and in exchange are provided the services I mentioned above.
     

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