Muslim group sues FBI over surveillance at California mosques

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Think for myself, Feb 25, 2011.

  1. Think for myself

    Think for myself Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Like small government? Freedom? Less government intrusion?

    Well then you are going to hate what the FBI is accused of in this story.

    For the true lovers of the Constitution and liberty, the FBI stands accused of doing some pretty nasty things.

    No, I have no problem with people who are possibly doing something wrong being investigated. I do have a problem with the government simply spying on folks for no reason at all, paying informants to infiltrate groups based on nothing, nothing at all, nor should our government be paying folks to go into these constitutionally protected groups and attempting to get folks to do or say things that they ordinarily would not.


    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justic...s-FBI-over-surveillance-at-California-mosques

    In a case that could test law enforcement's ability to identify and monitor potential terrorists inside the United States, an Islamic organization has sued the FBI for the actions of a paid spy who infiltrated several Orange County mosques in California in the mid-2000s.

    The American Civil Liberties Union and the Council on American-Islamic Relations allege in the lawsuit, filed in Los Angeles, that a paid informant named Keith Monteilh violated the First Amendment rights of hundreds of Muslim worshipers when he performed "indiscriminate surveillance" on "people who were more devout in their religious practice, irrespective of whether any particular individual was believed to be involved in criminal activity."


    The FBI responded that it doesn't ask its informants or agents to target people for their religious affiliations, and maintains it has done a good job of balancing civil liberties with its ongoing antiterrorism work.

    Nevertheless, the case threatens to erode already-tenuous relationships between law enforcement and the broader American Muslim community, which has the best potential to spot suspicious behavior in its midst. That ability – and willingness – was illustrated in this case.

    Mr. Monteilh "became an agent provocateur," says Ibrahim Hooper, national CAIR spokesman. "He was the one suggesting all these kinds of bizarre activities to the extent that community itself turned him in."

    The Monteilh affair was particularly galling to Los Angeles-area Muslims, since he was working in a mosque where an FBI official had promised no such surveillance would take place under his watch.

    More broadly, targeting mosques and even fervent believers is a sure way for the FBI to alienate moderate, law-abiding Muslims, says Ameena Mirza Qazi, staff attorney of CAIR-Los Angeles.

    "When Muslims perceive that they are viewed as a suspect community by law enforcement or the FBI, it really has a devastating effect on relations between law enforcement authorities and American Muslims," says CAIR's Mr. Hooper.

    But the FBI can't ignore the role of mosques as potential hubs of terror activity, says Gabriel Schoenfeld, a national security expert at the Hudson Institute. Some of the organizers of the first World Trade Center attack in 1993, for example, met at a mosque in New Jersey.

    "Mosques can't be sanctuaries for criminals," says Dr. Schoenfeld, author of "Necessary Secrets: National Security, Media, and the Rule of Law."

    "Even if the FBI did something wrong in this case, that would not eliminate the need for the agency to investigate places like mosques, where terror activities have been cooked up in the past. Does that cut against the First Amendment? Undoubtedly. But the First Amendment isn't a suicide pact. It has to be balanced against other provisions of the Constitution, like providing for the common defense," argues Schoenfeld.

    The lawsuit contends that Monteilh's FBI handlers told him to collect e-mail address, phone numbers, and other pertinent information about Muslims, and "explicitly told Monteilh that Islam was a threat to America's national security."

    Legal experts say the lawsuit could succeed if the ACLU proves that the FBI targeted Muslims for their religious beliefs. But resting an entire case on a paid informant – with a criminal record, in Monteilh's case – can be tricky. "Using informants is an unsavory business, and informants often lie,'' John Baker, a Louisiana State University law professor, tells the Washington Post. "How trustworthy is his information? No one knows.''

    Schoenfeld adds that lawyers could also parse the allegation that the FBI asked Monteilh to look for worshippers who were particularly devout. "What does that mean?" he says. "Are they devout in trying to memorize the Koran, or are they devout in preaching a political brand of Islam? That could be legitimate for the the FBI to investigate."

    "Nobody objects" to the FBI investigating "when there's actual probable cause," says Hooper, "but to just say, 'go into these various mosques and see what you can dig up' – and even suggest to people that they should engage in criminal activity – that is something that is way beyond the pale."
     
  2. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Number Of US Mosques Continues To Grow...
    :omg:
    New Mosques Cropping Up In Chicago, Study Shows
    November 3, 2011 - Protests against new mosque construction have made headlines from New York City and Chicago to Los Angeles and Nashville. But despite the push-back in some communities, one new academic study shows the number of mosques in the U.S. continues to grow — especially in the Chicago area.
     
  3. Think for myself

    Think for myself Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    God, no pun intended, that was a genius OP. An atheist fighting for religious freedom. Brilliant.
     
  4. Barry Badrinath

    Barry Badrinath New Member

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    "Golf clap"......
     
  5. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And yet we hear Christians on this board complaining about "Christian discrimination". :roll:
     
  6. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

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    Why are we (the West and US) still allowing Muslim immigration after the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks???
     
  7. paco

    paco New Member

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    I stopped right here. These idiot Muslims have obviously never heard of Bush's and Obama's PATRIOT Act. The FBI can do whatever it danged well pleases under that Act.
     
  8. Think for myself

    Think for myself Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because for the most part Americans are not bigoted jerks and realize that Islam did not attack us, terrorists did.
     
  9. paco

    paco New Member

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    Haven't you been keeping up with the news? Islam = terrorism.
     
  10. Think for myself

    Think for myself Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Actually, I have been keeping up on the news.

    And being a sentient being capable of at least something approaching rational thought and a modicum of logic, I realize that not every Muslim is a terrorist. I would imagine the vast majority simply want to live as most folks do, peacefully and happily raising their families.
     
  11. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

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    Your usual senseless ad hom attacks aside. Why? Can you answer it directly?
     
  12. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

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    Isn't this true of the majority of most people living in evil, dangerous states?

    _
     
  13. Think for myself

    Think for myself Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I did answer directly. You simply di dnot care for the answer.
     
  14. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

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    No, you really didn't explain the perceived need for Muslim immigration. You just attacked me from behind a computer screen. Let's go, defend your beliefs honestly. :popcorn:

    _
     
  15. Think for myself

    Think for myself Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That was not the question you posed. The question was why do we not ban Muslims from immigration.
     
  16. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle Banned

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    Naivite, stupidity, political correctness, and willful ignorance.
     
  17. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

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    No, it was why are we allowing Muslim immigration. <<< MOD EDIT: INSULT REMOVED >>> _
     
  18. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

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    I think that's what TFM is unwilling to admit.


    _
     
  19. Think for myself

    Think for myself Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You started with this.


    And then said this.


    Two very different things. Allowing versus need.

    Would you care to take a post and clarify your position, the one that you will be arguing going forward?
     
  20. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    The Fifth Column & the Mexican Illegals & the Far Left & MSM are taking Balkanization to the next level ...
     
  21. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

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    <<< MOD EDIT: INSULT REMOVED >>> We are all waiting for you to step into the ring.


    _
     
  22. Agent Zero

    Agent Zero New Member

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    If we ban Muslims from coming over here we should ban DonGlock from ever posting again. It's only fair.
     
  23. Grokmaster

    Grokmaster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, hey, it's not like muslims in America have met in American mosques and planned attacks against other Americans, is it? :rolleyes:


    I mean, oither than that 9/11 thingy, and the NYC airport bombing plot, the DC snipers, the Ft.Hood Obama muslim "transition team" savage, etc., ad nauseum.

    What reason could we possibly have for surveilling who and what's going on at mosques...? Duh...
     
  24. Agent Zero

    Agent Zero New Member

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    What do you think the proportion of mosques which house extremists planning to do something or other to mosques which house peaceful and praying Muslims? What do you think the proportion really is? Do you think such a blatant violation of their constitional rights is worth watching each and every mosque? What a complete waste of resources that would be.
     
  25. EMTdaniel86

    EMTdaniel86 Banned

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    Most people would like that. Live in peace with their families and be left alone. Unfortunately, that isn’t the world that we live in now. We're at war is Islam.
     

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