Project Gunrunner

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by onalandline, Mar 30, 2011.

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  1. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Looks like our federal government, most obviously the Obama Administration, for some reason, likes to place the blame for Mexico's drug/gun violence on America's gun retailers. First of all, Mexican thugs procure their weapons from many not-so-legit sources. Of course, our lame Administration in Washington likes to blame the United States. Shame on them.

    The link below talks a bit about Project Gunrunner. You can Google a lot more about this stuff.

    This brings up a bigger issue. Who's side is the Obama Administration on anyway? The U.S. or Mexico? This is just another way in which Obama displays his disdain for the United States, and why many, many Americans question his origins, faith, and patriotism.

    Project Gunrunner: http://video.foxnews.com/v/4611528/congressional-investigation-of-project-gunrunner
     
  2. prometeus

    prometeus Banned

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    Perhaps if you offered explicit aspects and or better solutions instead of meaningless generalizations, your post could have started a discussion instead of portraying you as a partisan hack.
     
  3. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am an American, not a hack. If you haven't noticed, our borders are porous, and our Administration doesn't seem to worry about border security. They would rather sue our States in court to block them from protecting themselves.

    There are more than illegals crossing our borders. They need to be secured...period.

    Mexico is a police State that is as corrupt as they come. They have their own border problems with their southern border. That is where most of their drugs/guns come from.

    Instead of these lousy politicians like Obama, Clinton, and Holder just bashing the United States and supporting the Mexican government, they should encourage Mexico to look within, curtail their corruption, and secure their borders.

    Oh, but it must be that Ma and Pa gun store causing all the problems.
     
  4. NaturalBorn

    NaturalBorn New Member Past Donor

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    IIRC, most/all of the automatic weapons in Mexico that DID come from the U.S. are shipped to the Mexican Army by the Pentagon then stolen or sold to the cartels.
     
  5. prometeus

    prometeus Banned

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    As one does not preclude the other you are both.

    No (*)(*)(*)(*) Sherlock and you came up with this all by yourself? No doubt you also discovered that this problem magically appeared on the day after Obama took office.

    Your point? Who has denied that?

    Wow you are so knowledgeable...

    You see this is what makes you the partisan hack, spouting irrelevant drivel fueled by ignorance.
     
  6. devilsadvocate

    devilsadvocate New Member

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    I have been following this for about a month now, just another reason to get rid of the unconstitutional ATF if you ask me.

    why is it that the ATF always gets caught doing something terrible when there is a democrat in the white house?
     
  7. NaturalBorn

    NaturalBorn New Member Past Donor

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    Alcohol, tobacco and firearms should be a convenience store, not a federal agency.
     
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  8. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, the problem was already there, but at least Bush didn't bash his own country and wrongly place the blame for the problem.

    Why? They are the ones in charge. Who else can I blame?

    Sounds like I may have touched a nerve. Sorry if your boy Bobo is a pathetic president.
     
  9. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL! Good one, although they are the ATFE now.
     
  10. prometeus

    prometeus Banned

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    Which further proves that you are a partisan hack. None of this drivel has anything to do with the topic at hand and you obviously you are reduced to slinging this partisan manure because the topic at hand exceeds your abilities.
     
  11. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Why, the Progressive Liberals, of course....
    It's All about furthering the Agenda....

    This whole thing is nothing but this administration manufacturing it's own "Crisis"...
    That's their Plan, to attack, 'n try to destroy Our 2nd amendment Rights...
     
  12. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Ayuh,... I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere in the terms of service of this forum that you can attack the Message,...
    But Not the Messenger..??

    This post says Nothing on Topic,...
    I see Nothing but a Personal Attack.... :rolleyes:
     
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  13. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Think of it as economic stimulus for the drug war and propaganda machines.
     
  14. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    For someone who so freely rants against others for no logical reason, you sure do have a thin skin.
     
  15. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Nope,.. Not at all....
    But, being a responsible gun owning taxpaying citizen, I also have no problem following most Rules...

    Quite the opposite of the current administration, that's blatently Breaking the Law...
     
  16. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The topic at hand is just proving that the current Administration falsely likes to blame U.S. gun retailers for Mexico's problems.
     
  17. onalandline

    onalandline Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is exactly what they want to do.
     
  18. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    Be very afraid, children. It's all one big conspiracy and we have no proof, but we just KNOW that they are after us and our guns.
     
  19. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Ok Danct,... Please,... Explain to Us vile commoners why it is that the ATF is actually encouraging the behavior that you claim absolutely has to be controlled,...
    Aka; Strawman Purchases,..??

    Why is the ATF encouraging the illegal export of firearms that are being used to kill our own Federal Agents,..??

    Why is the current administration promoting illegal behavior, rather than prosecuting the criminals,..??

    Myself, 'n several other posters are awaiting your word salad explanation.....
     
  20. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    You COULD at least become acquainted with the topic, Bondo. A "Strawman" is a form of a fallacy, while a "straw purchase" is an illegal transfer of firearms. Do you now know the difference?





    Do you have any valid information that would suggest a nefarious motivation on their part? Until you present us with anything, I suppose that we must assume the obvious and conclude that the ATF has been carrying out sting operations, no? Ever heard of them? Law enforcement use them all the time.






    I have no time for vague conspiracies, friend. If you can frame your question with a valid premise, then I'll be happy to address it for you.
     
  21. Bondo

    Bondo Well-Known Member

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    Ayuh,... As I expected,...
    Answerin' a question, with a question...

    No substance,... No relevance...

    Just to remind you what Is relevant,...
     
  22. pneutin

    pneutin Banned

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    Let's be clear. ATF was telling dealers to allow straw purchases to go through. And at the same time, ATF was vilifying them in the media for allowing straw purchases to go through. Come on now, even you can't be that naive...or can you?

    Not to mention there is little evidence that ATF has successfully prosecuted these straw buyers. Instead of stopping the guns at the border, they allowed them to go into Mexico where they have no jurisdiction. Where these guns were used to kill Mexicans and at least two federal agents. Again, all while ATF is blaming gun dealers in the media for selling to straw buyers and fueling the Mexico drug war.

    So either the ATF has a nefarious motivation, or they're just incompetent. Neither option is appealing.
     
  23. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    No, your false dichotomy forgets that they COULD have had a justified purpose. We don't know all the facts yet, even though you and others are just itching to vilify this administration for anything.
     
  24. pneutin

    pneutin Banned

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    What are the facts so far?

    ATF worked with FFL's to let guns walk. True.
    ATF falsely proclaimed to the media that 90% of guns in Mexico come from the U.S. True.
    ATF didn't stop guns at the border. True.
    Federal agents have been killed with guns that were "walked". True.
    ATF is not cooperating with Congressional investigation to provide information and testimony relating to Project Gunrunner / Operation Fast and Furious. True.
    Mexican government complained it didn't know about Project Gunrunner. True.
    DOJ knew about Project Gunrunner. True.

    What facts are you hoping for that will vindicate ATF? What justified purpose do you hope will come out of this? At what cost?
     
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  25. Danct

    Danct New Member

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    Their statements as to the 90% were accurate. YOURS were not. They didn't claim, as you said that 90% came the US. They said that 90% of traced guns came from the US. This is entirely accurate. What is not accurate is the spin that was since applied to it by the gun lobby. Do you honestly believe that only 17% of guns are coming from the US? If you do, then I have some nice land in FLA for ya. Sweet deal.

    All, I'm saying is let's wait for a full accounting of what happened before we lynch the whole dept, OK? Sheeesh. Down Boy!
     
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