Russia and the UK

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by Rexody, Jun 13, 2011.

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  1. Rexody

    Rexody Member

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    The history of 2 countries proved to be the history of rivals constantly engaged in not normal wars of the elephant with the whale. There are a lot of soviet/russian persons as well as I presume the british ones who know this history in the light of naturally biased information towards each other.

    However the time goes by

    Is there someone from the UK here? What does he think about it? Has something changed in mutual relations or 2 nations are to look at each other through continuos suspicion and disbelief?
     
  2. los2rec

    los2rec New Member

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    From the Russian point of view, it was the UK (and France) that made the 2 world wars more bloody than necessary, and that was on top of territorial "arrangements" that the UK (and France) imposed on Europe. For Russia specifically, this means the potential resurrection of the territorial division the UK and France published for Russia around 1919. Highlights of this are that this would have put the southern half of Russia under French control and the northern half under UK control. Even if we ignore the emotional demages such typical UK/French expertise cause, there is no reason for Russia to find common interest with these 2 former tyrants now on their way out. Consequently, there will never be less suspicion between the UK and Russia, but only more. This question will however fade into history soon, since the influence of the UK and France is rather regional than global now. Russia and the USA however remain global players.
     
  3. Rexody

    Rexody Member

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    So you think either UK with its beautiful military and scientific story or France both face oblivion as global players without even a chance to have their independent say in redesigning at least modern Europe?
     
  4. los2rec

    los2rec New Member

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    In my humble opinion, the Russians have an equally beautiful scientific and military history. The difference is that western deindustrialization and shifting industry to the east made the UK and French stories a history lesson, whilst Russia continues uninterrupted. For example Russia has always had a space program, but the ESA on the other hand voiced that they wish they had their first program as opposed to just projects. At the end of the day though it may be fair and realistic to say, that Europe will never change so the only thing that really matters for Europe is who has the biggest guns at the moment. Then, considering that the UK and France could never do better than just secure the Atlantic seaboard for themselves (after ww2) whilst Russia single handedly fought and occupied Europe, the UK and France are rather a joke than a partner of any kind to Russia.
     
  5. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The USSR saved us in the War and it was HUGELY appreciated, though the tories lie about it now, since many of them supported Hitler.
     
  6. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    Moscow is on the same latitude as Edinburgh, and when the East wind arrives there from the steppes, it cuts to the bone and carries on through! I think the general feeling of the people is warmer. :wink:
     
  7. Rexody

    Rexody Member

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    However we can't forget the war at Faulkland the UK Navy so brilliantly won. It happened not so much time ago from the historical point of view. Besides UK is frowned upon only politically in Russian society. As to economic point of view Russians keep taking Britain for the boil of brand new ideas, a society of economic and social gurus to let this country to become a what we call it in Russian a 'locomotive' of Europe.

    To tell you the truth I came across people who thought that sometimes UK instigated or nudged the American policy in the direction the British goverment held to be useful for the UK.


    As to France it seems a country with big ambitions that go beyond her national frontiers and not only political but even military as we 've seen in the case with Libya. Otherwise seems strange to make some moves without having a solid base to say something new to Europe or even to the world!
     
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  8. Rexody

    Rexody Member

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    We know nothing about it

    Local mass media covered those events as... some British political circles supported Hitler...without saying in clear words which political party those circles belonged to.
     
  9. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The people who supported Hitler are fairly easily listed, and I've read the books that do it - though I wasn't interested enough to consign them to memory. Have no doubt that they were all Conservative, except for Moseley, who thought he might take over the Labour Party on his merry way, and Lloyd George/Edward V111 who thought they might use them to make a come-back.
     
  10. Rexody

    Rexody Member

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    Something tells me you're right!

    Persons who lived and worked in Britain for a short time used to say that at first glance British people seemed cold, close-lipped and buttoned up, cold shouldering foreigners. However one day everything changed and up...popped the understanding that they are good, kind and warm friends.

    I heard such stories rather a time ago

    May be today this is not true anymore.
     
  11. los2rec

    los2rec New Member

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    I think the Faulkland war was a training excercise for an afternoon fun, its volume was far from qualifying it for a war. As an American, I can honestly say that Russia IS the "locomotive" of Europe, with or without the UK's advice. Also I think the Russians are doing a disservice to themselves when they take economic or any other advice from a people such as the UK people, who would never "lower themselves" to try to get an understanding of Russian society. Germany is a much more suitable partner to Russia for Russia's European affairs. I think it would be better if Germany and Russia build on their long historic relationship and arrange a European "union" by something like Germany acting as Russia's "policeman" for western Europe. This would rearrange Europe and eliminate the "fault-lines" across it that Britain and France put there.

    Winston Churchill's Fulton speach (1946?) is a spectacular example of how the "UK instigated or nudged the American policy in the direction the British goverment held to be useful for the UK".

    I agree, France is an even worse destabilizing factor against Europe than the UK.
     
  12. Rexody

    Rexody Member

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    I keep looking through British actual documentaries on that war and see how in fact striking it proved to be for British people, marines and seamen, for their experience, post stress syndroms and so on.

    They call it the bloodiest hard won stubborn cut throat naval and land fighting after 2WW even if it was so short in time.

    I think Britains don't qualify it for an afretnoon fun.
     
  13. ValmirZz

    ValmirZz New Member

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    Germany won't make any hitoric relationship with Russia, They lost ww2 and now they are a colonised state of Western Powers, they wont do any big step without the agreement of USA,UK and France.
     
  14. los2rec

    los2rec New Member

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    I thought the British had more trouble in Iraq and Afghanistan.
     
  15. los2rec

    los2rec New Member

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    The Euro currency is basically a German currency by now. Most of Europe's economic activity happens in Germany, after this 2009 economic depression. So I think it may be logical that if someone wants deals with Europe, then Germany is the guy to talk to. If I was Russian, I would think that it would be profitable to prop Germany and then use Germany to get the rest of Europe to "pay" me.
     
  16. Viv

    Viv Banned by Request

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    I'd agree with that. I've always had a fondness for the Ruskies and most people I've discussed it with are the same. They seem fairly close to us in temperament.
     
  17. magnum

    magnum Banned

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    Yes, i used to work with a couple of Russian guys and they were cool. :thumbsup:
     
  18. Rexody

    Rexody Member

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    Is there some vivid distinction between an English temperament and that of Scottish, Welsh, Irish, or there's no difference at all as the location of the British Isles make every one more or less equal?
     
  19. Viv

    Viv Banned by Request

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    They are 4 different countries with distinct cultures and disposition, which happen to temporarily share a political union.

    If you consider saying France and Germany are the same because they are both in the EU and share a border, then you begin to see the distinction.
     
  20. Rexody

    Rexody Member

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    I didn't want to hurt your feelings! Its not that easy to understand such things being a few thousand kilometres from the British Isles. We in the Soviet Union and now in the former Soviet Russian speaking republics used to be taught about the history of the United Kingdom as a whole entity without telling apart Englishmen from the others.

    Yes we knew about ancient attritions between England on the one hand and Scotland, Irish republic and the ensuing wars. However all these knowledges were quick over lightly and I presumed all such hostilities had gone down in history!

    On the other hand if I happen to listen to some UK citizen saying The Officers of the British Army (especially high ranking) in the majority of cases come from Wales then I'm for sure supposed to believe to him even if I find his words a bit strange!


    As to a political union that you temporarily share I knew nothing of!
    On the contrary I thought everything went smooth and even wondered how UK citizens managed to keep their Kingdom united at a time when new states spring up!
     
  21. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Anyone who said that would be hopelessly drunk. 'England' as a territory contains some extremely different groups of people, and the nations of the UK are even more extremely unlike one another. Those who have been mistaught about these matters will find it easy to learn and doubtless will, too courteous, I'm sure, to want to appear deliberately ill-mannered.
     
  22. Rexody

    Rexody Member

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    What do you mean?
     
  23. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What is the problem?
     
  24. Rexody

    Rexody Member

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    I'm not sure I understood well you last words!
     
  25. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Many foreigners - and a great many English - use the name 'England' to mean 'Britain', or even the UK. In those who know better we find this grossly rude. Probably I misunderstood you here.
     
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