Arctic sea ice loss due to global warming

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by livefree, Jul 25, 2011.

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  1. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    Arctic sea ice loss due to global warming is very bad and getting worse. In the last half century or so, the Arctic has lost millions of square kilometers of sea ice, perhaps as much as 50% of the previous long term average area of coverage. There was a record minimum of ice set in 2005 and then an even lower record low extent in 2007, down another 23% under the 2005 record low. This year is on track to match or exceed that record ice loss set in 2007. The shiny, white sea ice reflects about 90% of the sun's energy back out towards space but when the ice melts, the dark ocean waters absorb about 90% of the sun's energy, warming the waters and melting more ice in a positive feedback loop. Climate scientists are finding out that the disruption of the Arctic climate patterns and the much higher temperatures there are having major effects on the whole Northern Hemisphere climate.

    Pew Center on Global Climate Change

    Summer Arctic Sea Ice Decline


    This figure compares the extent of the summer arctic sea ice in 1979 with the extent of the sea ice in summer 2005. Since 1979, more than 20% of the Polar Ice Cap has melted away in response to increased surface air and ocean temperatures.

    [​IMG]

    That was just the ice loss through September 2005. On September 21, 2005, the five-day running mean sea ice extent dropped to 5.32 million square kilometers (2.05 million square miles), the lowest extent ever observed during the satellite record. Since then, much more of the Arctic sea ice has melted in the heat. In 2007 the sea ice cover was diminished another 23% from the previous low in 2005, down to only 4.28 million square kilometers (1.65 million square miles). Now 2011 is on track to match or beat the 2007 record low sea ice cover.

    From the National Snow and Ice Data Center at the University of Colorado -

    Arctic Sea Ice Shatters All Previous Record Lows
    NSIDC

    1 October 2007
    "Arctic sea ice during the 2007 melt season plummeted to the lowest levels since satellite measurements began in 1979. The average sea ice extent for the month of September was 4.28 million square kilometers (1.65 million square miles), the lowest September on record, shattering the previous record for the month, set in 2005, by 23 percent (see Figure 1). At the end of the melt season, September 2007 sea ice was 39 percent below the long-term average from 1979 to 2000 (see Figure 2). If ship and aircraft records from before the satellite era are taken into account, sea ice may have fallen by as much as 50 percent from the 1950s."

    [​IMG]
    Figure 1: This image compares the average sea ice extent for September 2007 to September 2005; the magenta line indicates the long-term median from 1979 to 2000. September 2007 sea ice extent was 4.28 million square kilometers (1.65 million square miles), compared to 5.57 million square kilometers (2.14 million square miles) in September 2005. This image is from the NSIDC Sea Ice Index. See high-resolution version



    Early sea ice melt onset, snow cover retreat presage rapid 2011 summer decline
    NSIDC

    July 18, 2011
    Arctic sea ice extent declined at a rapid pace through the first half of July, and is now tracking below the year 2007, which saw the record minimum September extent.
     
  2. Felix (R)

    Felix (R) New Member

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    Cryoconite is something which is carried through volcanic eruptions, far away deserts and carbon emissions. It is less than five percent soot however upon reaching the ice caps can have a direcct effect on albedo, this decreases the ability for the ice to reflect light, and increases its ability to absorb heat which also contributes to the melting.
     
  3. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

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    So you use reports in summer when Ice is melting. Sounds like typical Global Warming tricks.

    Try this

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1242011/DAVID-ROSE-The-mini-ice-age-starts-here.html

    The bitter winter afflicting much of the Northern Hemisphere is only the start of a global trend towards cooler weather that is likely to last for 20 or 30 years, say some of the world’s most eminent climate scientists.

    Their predictions – based on an analysis of natural cycles in water temperatures in the Pacific and Atlantic oceans – challenge some of the global warming orthodoxy’s most deeply cherished beliefs, such as the claim that the North Pole will be free of ice in
    summer by 2013.

    According to the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre in Colorado, Arctic summer sea ice has increased by 409,000 square miles, or 26 per cent, since 2007 – and even the most committed global warming activists do not dispute this.
     
  4. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    No trick, ptif, just normal science with which you are obviously very unfamiliar. Any long term trends in the Arctic sea ice are determined by the changes seen year-to-year in the ice cover's lowest extent, usually sometime in September. The maximum extent has also been shrinking.



    OK....I tried it....and it tastes like crap! This David Rose is a hard core denier cult nitwit and liar. In the article you quote, he blatantly misrepresents and distorts the findings of the climate scientists he uses to try to 'prove' his specious delusional point.

    Rosegate
    January 27, 2010
    (excerpts)

    [Rose] wrote a story that thoroughly misrepresented Mojib Latif, claiming:

    "The bitter winter afflicting much of the Northern Hemisphere is only the start of a global trend towards cooler weather that is likely to last for 20 or 30 years, say some of the world's most eminent climate scientists [referring to Latif]."​

    Latif, of course, had said no such thing, and responded:

    "They are not related at all," he said. "What we are experiencing now is a weather phenomenon, while we talked about the mean temperature over the next 10 years. You can't compare the two."​


    Rosegate scandal grows

    Rosegate scandal still growing: David Rose admits that he has no credibility


    Here's the real story...

    State of the Cryosphere
    NSDIC

    [​IMG]
    Mean sea ice anomalies, 1953-2010: Sea ice extent departures from monthly means for the Northern Hemisphere. For January 1953 through December 1979, data have been obtained from the UK Hadley Centre and are based on operational ice charts and other sources. For January 1979 through September 2010, data are derived from passive microwave (SMMR / SSM/I). Image by Walt Meier and Julienne Stroeve, National Snow and Ice Data Center, University of Colorado, Boulder.

    The Arctic sea ice September minimum extent reached new record lows in 2002 (15.3 percent below the 1979-2000 average), 2005 (20.9 percent below), and 2007 (39.2 percent below). In 2007, Arctic sea ice broke all previous records by early August—a month before the end of melt season (see Arctic Sea Ice Shatters All Previous Record Lows). In 2008, the September minimum was 4.67 million square kilometers (1.80 million square miles), the second lowest in the satellite record. In 2009, the September minimum was 5.36 million square kilometers (2.07 million square miles), the fourth-lowest in the satellite record. In 2010, the September minimum was 4.60 million square kilometers (1.78 million square miles), the third-lowest in the satellite record (see Arctic sea ice extent falls to third-lowest extent; downward trend persists).


    Meanwhile, this year looks likely to match or exceed the record breaking 2007 low ice extent.

    ***
     
  5. jackdog

    jackdog Well-Known Member

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    Another alarmist post with no solution brought to you by the tax people into the stone age and move our industry to China and India so we can strip mine the arctic foundation LF?


    See if you can find some giant graphics on how much of this is due to natural cycles of the earth and what percentage is due to AGW. Then maybe you can show us how much is from loss of albedo because of land mass usage and how much is due to otehr factors. Once you establish those perhaps you have a idea as to what are we supposed to do about the AGW other than mass genocide?
     
  6. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    Another denier cult post from someone without a clue as to what is really going on.


    You may be ignorant, confused and clueless but the climate scientists aren't. Your absurd notions about what measures are being proposed to deal with this climate change crisis are too moronic to bother with. Just a clue though, "mass genocide" is not one of them.
     
  7. jackdog

    jackdog Well-Known Member

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    by climate scientists to you refer people Mike Mann and Jim Hansen or the scientists who are not prostituting themselves for a title and a grant money teat to suckle on?
     
  8. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

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    Typical GW propagandist. You do nothing to address the facts of the article or the US snow and Ice center.

    You need to realize no one beloeves the GW lies anymore. You can not say the ice is melting when others prove it is growing

    I see only your sources matter


    The fraud is your Tim Lambert

    http://graemebird.wordpress.com/2009/12/27/tim-lambert-reveals-himself-as-a-liar-and-science-fraud/
     
  9. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

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    No climate scientist get the results they are paid to produce
     
  10. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    LOL....and you seem to be a typical denier cultist, ignorant, delusional and brainwashed.



    You seem to have trouble making sense, I see. Your David Rose article did not have any facts in it, only lies and distortions and misquotes. The National Snow and Ice Data Center is one of most respected university based scientific groups studying the Arctic and Antarctic. Of course, ignorant denier cultists probably wouldn't ever be aware of that since you only believe denier cult blogs.





    Global warming and the melting of the Arctic ice cap are an established scientific facts and doesn't depend on anyone's "belief". That's probably something that you politically motivated denier cultists can't comprehend. In any case, you're wrong about this as you are about most everything else. Your nonsense only seems true to you because your head is firmly jammed into the rightwingnut/deniercult echo chamber where a whole lot of confused, misinformed dupes agree with each other. In the real world though....

    In U.S., Concerns About Global Warming Stable at Lower Levels
    Fifty-one percent worry a great deal or fair amount, down from 66% in 2008

    Gallup Poll
    March 14, 2011

    Rasmussen Reports
    Wednesday, July 06, 2011
    But most voters (59%) say global warming it at least a somewhat serious problem. Just 37% do not think climate change is a serious issue. These figures include 33% who say global warming is Very Serious and 16% who believe it is Not At All Serious. A majority of voters have acknowledged climate change as a serious problem for several years now.

    And that's just the heavily propagandized, oil/coal industry dominated USA. In other countries and the world at large, it is a much different story.

    Public belief in climate change weathers storm, poll shows
    Events of past 18 months have little effect on Britons' opinion, as 83% view climate change as a current or imminent threat

    The Guardian
    31 January 2011
    (excerpts)

    The public's belief in global warming as a man-made danger has weathered the storm of climate controversies and cold weather intact, according to a Guardian/ICM opinion poll published today.

    Asked if climate change was a current or imminent threat, 83% of Britons agreed, with just 14% saying global warming poses no threat. A large majority of people think that humanity is causing climate change, with 68% agreeing and 24% choosing to blame non-man-made factors...

    While climate sceptics remain a vocal presence in some parts of the climate change debate, the new poll shows them to represent a fringe position. An analysis of those who think climate change poses no threat reveals them to be predominantly men (70%) and about twice as likely to be over 65 and to have voted Conservative in 2010 than the general population.


    In the larger world, most developed countries have a much larger percentage of their people who acknowledge the reality of global warming and the fact that humans are causing it. The figures range from 92% in Japan and Korea (76% of the people in developed Asia as a whole) to 56% of South Americans. Here's what the Gallup pollsters have to say about it.

    Worldwide, Blame for Climate Change Falls on Humans
    Americans among least likely to attribute to human causes

    Gallup
    April 22, 2011
    (excerpts)
    People nearly everywhere, including majorities in developed Asia and Latin America, are more likely to attribute global warming to human activities rather than natural causes. The U.S. is the exception, with nearly half (47%) -- and the largest percentage in the world -- attributing global warming to natural causes.


    Well, since my sources are from actual climate scientists and their published papers and your sources are denier cult nitwits posting drivel on blogs, yeah. Factually, your 'sources' are really crappy junk-science propaganda outlets for the fossil fuel industry and aren't worth squat.




    Well, let's see. Tim Lambert is a scientist who's gotten a lot of respect in the world science community for clearly presenting the facts about climate science and the nutjob you cite is just some random half-wit with a denier cult blog. The article you linked to is a good example of just how crazy this kook is.
     
  11. Joe Six-pack

    Joe Six-pack Banned

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    Global Warming due to, in large party, to sun-spot activity. It's why we experience unexpected cooling.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. ojdude

    ojdude Banned

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    Can I just say this. GW is just so manifestly humancentric in it's "message and or warning" that I just can't trust the "push" behind it! Sorry if I offend. I am a skeptic after all. Is it bad to be sceptical of the theory of man made GW? Attend a GW rally and see just how "understanding" one's fellow humans can be to any nay sayers!!
     
  13. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

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    You twist and spin and contradict yourself. You can't say a organization is well respected and then condemn a person that uses their data.

    You show why the Global warming community has lost all credibility
     
  14. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    No, you're just too confused to comprehend what is being said.



    You don't seem very observant, little dude. I cited the NSIDC twice in the OP and again in post #4. I'm the one using their data which unequivocally shows massive Arctic melting. The denier cult nutjob who wrote the article you cited was trying to distort their data, not use it. You have no idea what's going on, that's obvious.




    No, wrong again. I show that the climate scientists have all of the evidence and science on their side which makes them the "credible" source of choice for accurate information about the situation for world leaders in government and business and intelligent people everywhere. Meanwhile you demonstrate just how bewildered, clueless and confused denier cultists really are. Which, btw, is why world leaders in government and business and intelligent people everywhere regard you anti-science denier dupes as being on a par with the 'flat earth society'.
     
  15. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

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    I see you are right everyone else is wrong. You sound like Al Gore.

    Problem is the global warming cult has been caught in lies and corruption. They tried to use September readings for October. There was climate gate. and now Hansen is being taken to court for his greed.

    Is this the truth you claim. It is lies assumptions and deception that makes up Global warming truth and facts get in the way
     
  16. jackdog

    jackdog Well-Known Member

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    yeah, Al Gore managed to pervert the science into a political agenda. What is funny is that they try and dissuade discussion wherever they can. That's not science, it's religion. There are a lot of good blogs out there that encourage discussion though. AGW is running out of steam except for politicians and others who are still trying to use it for a power/money grab. After 20 years of shouting "the sky is falling" people are noticing the sky is still there.
     
  17. jackdog

    jackdog Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    whats interesting is that if you look at this graph, the temps between 1979 and 1998 is relatively flat. In 1998 there was a big step jump....what else occurred in 1998 ...super el nino of course. just something to think about.
     
  18. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    It seems like it's all an ego trip with you, but no, ptif, it is the thousands of climate scientists who are right because they use observable evidence and the laws of physics to reach their conclusions. And indeed, it is you duped and bamboozed denier cultists who are quite wrong and very confused and deluded about all this global warming/climate change business. You are the victims of a clever propaganda campaign and you have been deliberately deceived by those with a financial stake in the continued sale of fossil fuels. Your obsession with Vice President Gore just shows your confusion and ideological brainwashing as he is only the messenger, not the source of climate science. He has been a good and accurate conveyer of the facts about AGW, as many scientists have affirmed, and that's what really has your panties in a twist about him.




    You obviously believe fervently in many of the denier cult's myths but they're still just idiotic myths with no real connection to reality. None of the climate scientists have been "caught in lies and corruption". That's just some propaganda that you swallowed unquestioningly. I doubt anything I could say or even any evidence I could present would rid you of your precious and comforting delusions.




    LOLOL...you have no "facts". All you've got is some demented denier cult myths and delusions. You are the one who has been deceived but you're far too ignorant and distrustful about science to be able to appreciate that fact, even when virtually the entire world scientific community supports the conclusion that humans are causing this abrupt warming/climate change trend and that these pose a large risk to humanity, our civilization and the rest of the lifeforms on this planet.
     
  19. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

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    No the facts are The IPCC, GISS lie and deceive. You are a minister of the church of global warming

    You even deny the lies. I bet you deny Hansen is being taken to court.

    I referred to lies and corruption you should know about and all I get is your opinions and blind commitment to the global warming cult
     
  20. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    You are confusing your denier cult myths with actual facts. You're very delusional about all this.



    I'm reporting on the scientific facts. You are an unfortunate dupe of a clever propaganda campaign that has you totally confused, deluded and misinformed.




    The only lies are the ones coming from the stooges for the fossil fuel industry.



    Right....some rightwingnut front group is harassing scientists who report the truth about the climate crisis...nothing new there...just part of the FFI's campaign of disinformation, lies and political maneuverings to block any action to deal with the crisis 'cause those actions, like taxing carbon emissions, would cut into their trillion dollar per year profit stream.





    You referred to your dingbat denier cult myths which I do know all about, unfortunately for you. Your "blind commitment" to your cult of reality denial is what is really funny....and tragic.
     
  21. wyly

    wyly Well-Known Member

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    :omg::laughing: wait I'll tilt my monitor to the right so the incline flattens out, oh ya that works :laughing:


    well now we know what the problem is, you have absolutely no clue how to read a graph...
     
  22. ptif219

    ptif219 Well-Known Member

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    You show you are deceived. You are the denier because you will not admit the truth.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/...omments/hansen_september_the_hottest_october/


    http://www.cdtoa.org/news/inthenews...outside-employment-records-of-dr-james-hansen
     
  23. livefree

    livefree Banned

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    No, I understand the science and I post the facts from the actual climate scientists. You can't comprehend the science so you are deceived by the anti-science propaganda coming from the fossil fuel industry and so you post idiotic nonsense from denier cult blogs. Or in this case, a blog entry from Andrew Bolt, professional denier, and a dump truck owner newsletter. LOL.
     
  24. jackdog

    jackdog Well-Known Member

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    and you have no idea what the phrase 1979 - 1998 means do you? better learn the basic number system before you go criticizing other people. Do you even know what a step jump is ? Look at 1998 in that graph.
     
  25. jackdog

    jackdog Well-Known Member

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    Does Mike Mann have a masters or a phd in climate science LF, How about James Hansen, where did he get his degree in climate science, and R Pachauri head of the IPCC, what school did he attend for his climate science degree?
     
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