Which Vision of America Will Win Out?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by SiliconMagician, Jul 29, 2011.

?

Social Democratic America vs Limited Government America

  1. Social Democracy

    41 vote(s)
    53.9%
  2. Limited Government

    35 vote(s)
    46.1%
  1. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

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    That lays it out perfectly.

    Which vision of America do you think will win out in the end?

    Social Democratic

    or

    Limited Government?

    Explain your reason why.
     
  2. jwhitesj

    jwhitesj New Member

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    I just picked one, I have no idea which one will actually win out. Since I think the government can be useful and benneficial to society, I'd rather the social-democracy wins out.
     
  3. kicks

    kicks New Member

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    Social democracies and more equal societies overwhelmingly perform better on a plethora of social and health indeces, i.e., social mobility, life expectancy, infant mortality, math and literacy, drug abuse, crime rates, imprisonment, homicide rates, obesity, mental illness, etc (this also holds true across the 50 states as well).

    Equal societies are better for everyone. I would put my bet on social democracies.
     
  4. Joe Six-pack

    Joe Six-pack Banned

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    The American people don't want to end up like the former Soviet Union.

    The entire point of our country is limited Government, that's the American Experiment.
     
  5. Rollo1066

    Rollo1066 Member

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    Social Democratic. Mostly because that's what my own political leanings are. I also don't think Social Democratcy implies an unlimited government or a lack of freedom for people in general.

    Without raising income taxes in general most of the benefits of Social Democratcy could be paid for by taxes on technology (for example a $.44 excise tax on e-mails). Only those who chose to use the taxed products would pay.
     
  6. Joe Six-pack

    Joe Six-pack Banned

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    Taxing emails? Email is free and doesn't (on it's own) generate value.

    It's like proposing you tax people for every word they speak in public.

    Do all socialists want to tax otherwise free life experiences?
     
  7. jwhitesj

    jwhitesj New Member

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    I agree, Taxing e-mails is not a good idea. There is no need for it;. Taxing junk email I might be on board for though.
     
  8. Crossedtoes

    Crossedtoes Active Member

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    "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."

    - Thomas Jefferson

    He's been right so far. Unless the GOP begins giving more principled arguments for capitalism, I believe he's right.
     
  9. Joe Six-pack

    Joe Six-pack Banned

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    There are at least two signatures on this board that the above comment contradicts. But Jefferson wasn't praising government or criticizing Liberty, he was warming of the destructive nature of government. Jefferson also said: "Sometimes it is said that man cannot be trusted with the government of himself. Can he, then, be trusted with the government of others?"

    Jefferson was for limited Government.

    There is no room in the Constitution or American society for socialist collectivism.
     
  10. TARFU

    TARFU New Member

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    It's possible to have a limited social democracy, which I believe is basically what we already have here in America.

    I"d rather see more limited government, and I believe eventually we will, simply because I see the USA imploding much like the USSR did.
     
  11. TrueBluTexan

    TrueBluTexan New Member

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    You forgot other.
     
  12. Johnny-C

    Johnny-C Well-Known Member

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    In short, social democracy will win, because it addresses MORE of the overall human condition (good or bad) which individuals tend to experience.

    A society based primarily upon who is 'strongest' or can 'collect' the most stuff, is ultimately sensed to be demotivating and fruitless, and deteriorates (demoralizes its citizens) far more quickly overall. Competition has its inherent value, but cooperation is often underrated by those who too readily discount the importance and positive potential of human beings.
     
  13. Trinnity

    Trinnity Banned

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    I think limited govt will win at some point. We have no other choice that's sane or affordable. The FFs were right about so much and we're entering a period where more and more people are reading and understanding the foundation of our Constitution.
     
  14. TARFU

    TARFU New Member

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    I agree. Social democracy is an unsustainable model. It simply cannot survive unless the regime manipulates the currency, and finances social programs by forcing debt onto future generations.
     
  15. TrueBluTexan

    TrueBluTexan New Member

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    It depends on how one defines limited government. Even Texas does not have a limited government and has expended somewhat under Perry/Bush.
     
  16. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

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    California is America's lab experiment in Social Democratic Reform.

    They are more of a social democracy than most European countries.

    Seeing how they are about to collapse into oblivion. I am unimpressed with the merits of Social Democracy.
     
    Trinnity and (deleted member) like this.
  17. DivineComedy

    DivineComedy Well-Known Member

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    I am assuming from your comment in the other topic that "Limited Government" does not include "Democratic" (of the people, by the people, for the people) government:

    "I'm not paying 50-60% between State, Local and Federal Taxes to pay the way for the uneducated masses. They can move to Mexico where they can lead a better life."

    As supply of jobs (good ones) decreases, such that no equilibrium or contentment exists between the unwashed masses and the wealth holders, demand for distribution of wealth will increase.

    So to answer the question requires knowing if "Limited Government" (No Death Taxes) for a silver spoon inherited Artificially Intelligent Robotic Principle Means of Production will use Terminators to eliminate voters, so as to maintain Limited Government in the future.
     
  18. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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    For the first time in my life i am actually terrified for my country.
     
  19. Iriemon

    Iriemon Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Pass the Buck Generation has made its vision clear.

    It wants both low taxes and spending on its programs -- SS, medicare, medicaid, defense, aid to the poor and farmers. And will punish politicians that don't pander to its vision.
     
  20. Joe Six-pack

    Joe Six-pack Banned

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    Limited government in terms of maximizing personal and financial freedom.

    Social democracy might work on a small scale, but when government is involved it's authoritarianism. There are so many Constitutional rights that social democracy would violate on a daily basis, that believing it will win out in the USA is a pipe-dream. Liberals are a small minority in this center-right country.
     
  21. padcrasher

    padcrasher New Member

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    In the short term limited government will win out.

    Then:

    1) The middle class after years of pain will realize how much they are getting screwed.

    2) All those Libertarian promises of trickle down prosperity, from all that growth will never happen.

    3) The growing minority vote combined with the white progressive vote will finally overcome this white/southern/bigot vote.

    Then we will see an expansion again social programs.
     
  22. TARFU

    TARFU New Member

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    Don't be terrified. Embrace what's happening. It will lead to a better world.
     
  23. wayers

    wayers Member

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    Like California? Give us a break.:sad:
     
  24. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Everything goes back and forth. The social democratic experiment is obviously incredibly weak at defending itself from an inside threat. I am speaking of "representational" of course. Humans, although close, are not quite ready for popular vote to get the best results. People are still easily duped and programmed. While I think social democracies are great if the people at the top are genuine, American has seen from 100 years of nothing but corruption how easy it is for termites to destroy a once great structure, even one some deemed indestructible. History repeats itself. When a powerful nation-state is at the point where America is at, for instance, where the "elected rulers" are simply a group of noblemen protecting their own interests, completely out of touch with the struggles of the majority, an emperor of the people tends to fallow. In the long run, limited government will win out, as neither a group of noblemen, nor an emperor, can run-a-muck without a powerful state apparatus as their vessel. People simply need reminding of this fact every hundred years or so.
     
  25. jwhitesj

    jwhitesj New Member

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    Californias political system is very different than the US political system. California has representatives but california is run much more like a pure democracy with the california proposition system. Instead of representatives being elected to enact laws, the representatives are elected to figure out how to pay for the laws that the people pass. I think California would be in better shape if we returned to a representative democracy instead of the system we have. Also the amouont of gerymandering is a big problem in California congressional districts. There are many other issues as well. California has problems, but the problems aren't related to the discussions about national politics.
     

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