Fact: You should not include Intragovernmental Debt in the National Debt

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by akphidelt, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. akphidelt

    akphidelt Banned

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    There are so many misconceptions of the national debt that it is mind boggling. The reason why economists do not use the $14.5 trillion national debt figure is that intragovernmental debt is not real debt. It is simply an allowance for how much the Govt can spend on it's programs. Paying off intragovernmental debt will not decrease the national debt, it will simply increase public debt.
     
  2. P. Lotor

    P. Lotor Banned Past Donor

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    :eyepopping:
     
  3. akphidelt

    akphidelt Banned

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    Not understanding a topic does not warrant a googly-eyed emoticon!
     
  4. P. Lotor

    P. Lotor Banned Past Donor

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    When you borrow money you have debt. Case closed.
     
  5. akphidelt

    akphidelt Banned

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    Lol, even when you borrow it from yourself? Tread lightly my friend. Remember you are dealing with someone who can back what he says up with facts. Tread lightly!!
     
  6. P. Lotor

    P. Lotor Banned Past Donor

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    Borrowing from yourself is not possible.
     
  7. akphidelt

    akphidelt Banned

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    Exactly, so what do you think intragovernmental debt is?
     
  8. kuyajack

    kuyajack New Member

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    inter governmental debt? You mean like the government buying bonds to invest the money from social security?
     
  9. akphidelt

    akphidelt Banned

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    Who are they buying bonds from? And the correct spelling is intragovernmental debt even though a little squiggly red line shows up
     
  10. P. Lotor

    P. Lotor Banned Past Donor

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    Not possible?
     
  11. akphidelt

    akphidelt Banned

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    Exactly, it's just a number.
     
  12. P. Lotor

    P. Lotor Banned Past Donor

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    It's not borrowing and it's not debt..
     
  13. kuyajack

    kuyajack New Member

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    they are buying them from the treasury I would assume
     
  14. akphidelt

    akphidelt Banned

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    And what is the Treasury?
     
  15. ryanm34

    ryanm34 New Member

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    Intra government debt is real debt.

    It is counted as real debt by the IMF and every major ratings agency.

    Excluding intra government debt is a quirk of american that you owe to clinton which allowed him to claim that he had balanced the budget.
     
  16. akphidelt

    akphidelt Banned

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    Intragovernmental debt is not real debt such as public debt. It is a marker for future spending, it is not a marker for money borrowed. It will simply be replaced by public debt.
     
  17. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, you are claiming that the 4+ trillion in SS IOU's are not debt?

    Technically, you are right, SS/medicare are not government obligations and can be eliminated at anytime.

    The real crime is having younger americans have to make up the difference for the pillaging that has occured.
     
  18. akphidelt

    akphidelt Banned

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    What pillaging. It is required by law that all surplus be invested in to securities. Did you want them to just put the money in a bank vault to sit there?

    No one pillaged Social Security, the trust funds never actually had real money in them... they are just a number.
     
  19. ryanm34

    ryanm34 New Member

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    No it is real debt, and if you dislike the fact that it is a real liability then you can take it up with the world bank, S and P, Fitch and Moody. I doubt very much they will care what you think.
     
  20. akphidelt

    akphidelt Banned

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    Future social security payments are real debt. Intragovernmental debt is not real debt.
     
  21. P. Lotor

    P. Lotor Banned Past Donor

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    Maybe you can give an example of this intragovernmental "borrowing" yore talking about.
     
  22. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Then you are saying that SS is a ponzi-scheme designed to fail?
     
  23. P. Lotor

    P. Lotor Banned Past Donor

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    I don't think anyone would argue otherwise.
     
  24. akphidelt

    akphidelt Banned

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    No, there are ways they can figure out how to pay it in the future. I'm just saying there is no rational sense in storing money in a bank vault for future payments. Intragovernmental debt is just an allowance the Govt has to spend on future social security defaults. That money does not exist and those trust funds are simply pieces of paper with no actual money attached to them, unlike public debt.
     
  25. akphidelt

    akphidelt Banned

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    When the Government taxes you for $1000 in social security
    Then the Government spends $800.

    They now have a surplus of $200. Now what are their options?

    1) They can give the money back
    2) They can put it under their mattress
    3) They can invest it

    Now, where do they invest it? They invest it in themselves. They say, "Hey Mr. Govt here is $200, now can I have a piece of paper saying I gave you $200 so that I can spend this $200?"

    "Sure says Mrs. Govt, here is a piece of paper, now I'm going to spend the $200."

    So as you can see, all the Govt did was give themselves a piece of paper that says how much they can spend in the future. They did not borrow from any one. There is no money attached to those pieces of paper unlike public debt that requires actual money in return for the piece of paper.

    Like I said, that debt does not actually exist and it will simply be replaced with public debt whenever they dip in to their social security/medicare allowance.
     

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