The Beast Revelation

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by michae1, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. michae1

    michae1 New Member

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    The Beast Revelation

    This letter is dedicated to all Christians.

    The following letter is a summary of Revelation 13. Its purpose is to show the method used in finding the conclusions which have been stated. Nothing new has been added from my previous letters. It is more of a compilation of them all. This writing is the same material in different words. The Bible uses this same method of explanation. There are four Gospels. In each you see a different view of the same material. This can be beneficial because the meaning becomes more exact. Although, if this is a first time reader, then this will all be news to you. With that in mind, here we go.

    The first thing that should be addressed when doing any study of Bible prophecy is what questions do I intend to answer. Some of these questions can seem a little simplistic, but their answers are much more complicated. In my studies there were only a few questions that I saw as needing an answer. My questions were very simple. First, who is this individual who is identified by the number 666? Second, who is the false prophet and how does he make the whole world worship the beast whose number is 666. Another question has to do with these same individuals. Could these two individuals be the same person, or for that matter Satan himself? Where is Satan during all this? That last question is very important. It actually goes straight to the answer of all the questions. Finally, when would someone expect to see these individuals on the Earth? Literally, what time frame should I see them? Those are the questions. The answers are much more involved.

    This narrative will attempt to show how the answers are figured out. These answers can be seen from events that happen in the nightly news. This leads me to a key, which most of us know, but most of us forget. The Bible is a history book. Some events have happened, while some are waiting to happen. It is the ones that have not happened that we are most concerned with. Here is another key. By the way, these keys I speak of are keys to understanding. The Lord spoke in parables. The reason he gave was that it was for some to know the mysteries of God, while it was for some to know not. In hearing, they do not hear. In seeing, they do not see. I compare it to telling the truth, while hiding it at the same time. Many of the parables that the Lord spoke he immediately gave an answer to. He showed how he used certain symbols and words to describe subjects and then gave their meanings. Now for the punch line. The Lord also spoke in parables that he did not identify. These parables go straight to the hidden meaning of these end times. Another key is word substitution. An example of this is a pretty well-known item from Revelation. This word substitution deals with Revelation 13:1. The beast has seven heads and ten horns. In Revelation 17 those heads and horns are defined. The heads are identified as mountains, while the horns are identified as kings. This changes the whole picture of what the beast is symbolically to what it is literally. Now Rev.13:1 can be read as follows with just the items discussed thus far. And I saw a beast rise up out of the sea having seven mountains and ten kings. That is a simple and easy word substitution. Know that this will happen many times throughout the Bible.

    Now, getting back to the questions. The question is, where is Satan? If this question can be answered, you can eliminate some others. Some prophecy teachers believe that Satan is the beast, or that Satan is the false prophet. This interpretation is misleading, and it also creates a stumbling block in the path to a proper interpretation. I almost always get this question. How can you know who the beast is when he cannot be revealed? 2nd Thess. Chapter 2 states that he cannot be revealed, until something is removed first. Most scholars have this part right. That is a picture of the Rapture. What they have wrong is that Satan and the beast are not the same individual. Satan cannot be revealed until after the rapture, but he is not the beast. Therefore, I can identify the beast and his false prophet. People say prove it. So I did. I told them how to understand using the keys that I have mentioned. Revelation 13 is a parable, but God is not giving the definition, or the explanation. This one is for us to figure out. Ok, so where is Satan? In the book of Job, we get a view of Satan's abilities. In one scene, he is discussing with God about Job. Question, where is God? He is in heaven. Also, in his conversation with God Satan is talking as if he knows and has seen Job. God declares that he can do whatever he wants to Job, but he was not allowed to kill him. Now we know something else about Satan. He also has access to the Earth, and can affect peoples lives. So, it appears that Satan can be everywhere he wants to be, on Earth or in heaven. We know Satan and his angels will be cast out of heaven as per Revelation 12. This would further the idea that he is now in heaven. We also see Satan one other time, when he tempted Christ during his time on Earth. It says that he was taken to the wilderness to be tempted of Satan? Most people, and rightly so, have thought the wilderness to be a place on Earth, but this is a parable I believe. The Lord was in the wilderness and was tempted by Satan, but the wilderness is in heaven. This parable is read in Isaiah 35. It is the wilderness and the solitary place where the redeemed of the Lord walk. So, this last item being the most hard to prove, suffice it to say, that when Rev.12 says Satan will be cast out, he must be there in heaven to be cast out. Alright, now we can answer a couple questions. One, Satan is himself, and he is in heaven. Therefore, he is not the beast or the false prophet. These three work together, but each has his own identity.

    Now to dissect Revelation 13. As I have already stated, Revelation 13 is a word substitution parable. The seven heads are seven mountains and the ten horns are ten kings. Ok, we know from this description that the beast as described is a group of possibly ten countries. This brings me to another point. There are three definitions for the beast in Revelation 13. The first is a group of countries rising up out of the sea. The second is in Rev.13:11 and is a beast with two horns (kings). Remember horns are kings as per Rev. 17. Finally, there is a beast who is identified by the number 666. It is this last beast that causes all to receive a mark and that no man can buy and sell save he who has the mark, his number, or his name. There are three items here. Nowhere does it say that the mark is the number 666. This might have been a good guess 20 yrs. ago , but it is pretty hard to believe. Imagine people running around with a mark of 666 on their right hands. It sounds like a cartoon, but this is what the prophecy teachers want you to believe. Ok, another problem that sounds like a cartoon is the interpretation of the word "all." They want you to believe that no man could buy or sell if they did not worship the beast and take his mark. Interpreting the word "all" to mean everyone in the world. This is not the case. For one, we know that the beast is made up of only possibly ten countries. Everyone in this world lives in roughly 190 countries. I don't think we could possibly mean everyone. How about, all of those people concerned with the mark. Also, how do you cause all people concerned to receive a mark, and why? The most obvious way to mark everyone is at the voting booth. All people, rich and poor, small and great, or free and bond are potential voters. So, Mahmoud Abbas was elected president of the Palestinian Authority, and in the process all voters received an indelible ink mark on their right hands. This mark was to prevent double voting and corruption in the election. Ok, we have a mark. It is not 666. At this point he fits the part, but not completely. Still, there is no ready identification of 666 concerning him. This election was in January 2005.
     
  2. michae1

    michae1 New Member

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    The Beast Revelation part two

    Back to Rev.13. We have seven mountains and ten kings. Prophecy teachers want us to believe that a city with seven mountains is the seat of the antichrist and he rules with ten nations. Their logical conclusion was the Europe Union and the Vatican. This started the revived Roman empire theory. This theory has been around since the reformation. It is hard to believe this charade has gone on so long. Teachers are still preaching the Revived Roman Empire. This theory had some validity before the twentieth century and now has to be eliminated. None of these teachers could have predicted the fall of the Ottoman Empire and its division into so many separate sovereign nations. Back to our word substitution. There is an interesting item here concerning the word mountains in scripture. The word mountains can have two meanings. It can be either a mountain range, or a nation. This is the hardest part of this whole exercise, trying to figure out what mountains are describing. Teachers will have you believe it is a city with seven mountains. In actual fact, mountains here are referring to nations. This also pertains to the head wound. The wound was not a literal head wound at all, but was a nation that was wounded. The beast's head or nation was wounded and was healed. This is the Palestinian Authority after the beginning of the Oslo Accords. The land that Israel possessed was now being given back to the Palestinians and the beast's nation is being healed. Ok, so now I have seven nations and ten kings, Rev.13:1. Why do I have three more kings than nations? It seems I have a king for each nation, but three left over. In Daniel in says the beast subdued three kings. These three kings don't necessarily have to be from different countries. It seems so, but is not expressly mentioned. It is another parable. The three kings who were subdued by the beast were Israeli Prime Ministers. These three Prime Ministers all served during the seven years of the Oslo Accords and were voted out of office because of terror perpetrated during Yasser Arafat's rule. Now, I am down to seven nations. These seven nations will wage war. I can easily see seven nations that will wage war here very soon; Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Iran and the Palestinian Authority or Iraq, and there opponent Israel. This is exactly the same beast that is presented in Rev.17:10, just in a slightly different appearance. There are seven kings, five are fallen. This means five kings were defeated in war. Israel is referred to the "one that is," and the one that came later is the Palestinian Authority. This is a description of Israel's war for Independence. Literally, this was the beast being born. The war in 1967 is the beast rising up out of the sea in Rev.13:1. It was the unresolved issues of this conflict that resulted in the Oslo Accords of 1993. This seven year peace treaty was confirmed by Yitzhak Rabin and Yasser Arafat.

    Now, there is another beast in Rev.13:11. This beast has two horns or kings. This is a picture of the Palestinian Authority after the elections of January 2006. This is when Hamas ran in the elections and won a majority in parliament. Now the P.A. was a country with two kings. Abbas was the President and Ismail Haniyeh was the Prime Minister. Here is where the problem with money came about. Western Nations did not want to donate money to a known terrorist organization so looked for a way they could still fund Abbas's P.A., but not let any money get to Hamas. This is when the number 666 identified an individual. The temporary international mechanism was adopted on June 16, 2006. This program allowed Western Nations to donate funds directly to Abbas, while bypassing Hamas. If you were a member of Fatah, or on Abbas's payroll you got paid. This is how the people were allowed to buy and sell. They received salaries, whereas before the mechanism, they had no way of getting paid from the Government. Hamas did not receive salaries. Also, Hamas did not receive the mark of the beast. They boycotted the elections for President in Jan. 2005.
    It is more obvious who is being talked about the closer you get to the end.

    In conclusion, to my three beast definitions. Mahmoud Abbas fits all three definitions. He was a member of the P.A. when it was formed. He took over from Yasser Arafat after his death. He was one of the two kings of the second beast in Rev.13:11. Lastly, he is the one identified by the number 666, which could have been Arafat had he lived.

    Now, concerning the the false prophet. The following four verses below all refer to the false prophet, Ismail Haniyeh.

    Rev.13:11- and I beheld another beast coming up out of the Earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    Rev.13:12- And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein, to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
    Rev.13:13- "And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the Earth in the sight of men".
    Rev.13:15- And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast, should be killed.

    Hamas exercised all the power of the first beast (Abbas's P.A.) because they were now an equal partner in the Government. Also, the leader of Hamas caused them to worship or honor the first beast because Hamas would not honor the first beast. The first beast was the PA without Hamas as a member. The image of the beast is what the Government of Mahmoud Abbas represented. Verse 12 does not mention the image yet, we are just informed that the false prophet caused them to worship the first beast. Verse 14 and 15 gives the details of how that worshipping or honor was to commence. An image was created of the first beast that he (the false prophet) caused to be honored. This image of the beast is three items; the recognition of Israel, the honoring of all prior Palestinian agreements, and a renunciation of terror.

    The last question I think that needs addressed is how do you know the timing is right? Meaning, there have been so many translations, how do you know that this one is correct? This is a question I always get asked. The answer, in my mind, is sort of a mix between two different prophecies. The first is the seven day prophecy as recorded in Genesis. It is a similtude between this and the amount of recorded time that has already happened on Earth. In the book of Peter, God says one day to him is as a thousand years. If that idea is applied to the Genesis creation, everyday that God created something one thousand years passed. Finally, on the last day he rested from his work, and his rest was one thousand years or one of God's days. This was one full week or 7000 years. After God's rest he started his work again, and he created Adam. Starting with Adam, it was approximately 4000 years to the time of Christ. Also, we know that Christ was here roughly 2000 years ago. If God was to be consistent with his one week schedule, then we could expect his day of rest to fall somewhere after the year two thousand. 4000 plus 2000 is six days and on the seventh he rested for one thousand years. This is not an exact estimate, but it can put you in the right ballpark when searching for the correct timing of Revelation. This is the estimate. The next item is more exact. Daniel 9:27 says that he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week. Many in Hebrew is Rab. This was a covenant confirmed with Yitzhak Rabin. It was the beginning of land for peace, or the Oslo Accords. When you see this agreement happen you should be aware that this prophecy will last seven years. There is only one problem with this item. Prior to it happening, everyone thought that the end of the seventh year of the agreement God would return and begin his rest. Well, that did not happen. The reason was a logical misinterpretation. It just mentions that this agreement must occur along with the prophecies mentioned, not that they would all happen and end on the last day of the seventh year. This has thrown everyone watching off-course for a time. Although, this was not such a terrible mistake if the watcher could see the right answer and get his, or her perspective back. When you have these two items coinciding at the expected time, then you know Revelation can be interpreted with accuracy. The events should start happening, as they have, as I have recorded in this letter.

    May God bless all who read this letter.

    Michae1
     
  3. michae1

    michae1 New Member

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    Does anyone agree with my conclusions?
     
  4. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly it sounds like you are using religion as a wedge rather than a bridge. For this reason people have been killing each other in the name of their god for thousands of years. Why the more proselytizing religions cannot just say "to each their own" or "Love thy neighbor as thyself" or "let he whom is without sin cast the first stone" or "judge not lest the be judged"... is beyond me.

    Theology is not evil... what some of its practitioners do in its name is.
     
  5. michae1

    michae1 New Member

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    Does anyone believe this prophecy?
     
  6. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    No.................
     
  7. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    of course not. belief in fortune telling, magic, and supernatural beings is ridiculous in adulthood.
     
  8. DarkDaimon

    DarkDaimon Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I can do that too!

    It's a helicopter!
    1280px-US_Navy_050803-N-5027S-174_A_U.S._Army_AH-64_Apache_helicopter_prepares_to_takeoff_for_a_.jpg

    A helicopter does look like a locust or a horse prepared for battle. The spinning propeller reflecting sunlight would look like a crown of gold. The faces were the faces of the pilots.

    Again the spinning propeller on top and the teeth should be self explanatory.

    Obvious reference to the steel under belly of the helicopter and the sound of the engine and propeller.

    The long tail section of the helicopter does look like a scorpion's tail. The stings of course are its missiles.

    It is not hard to cherry pick sections of the Bible and interpret it anyway you want.
     
  9. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    This is a reference to the invasion of Gog and Magog.. The Scythians who road horseback and fired composite bows.
     
  10. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    Does it make historically correct sense to see the Revelation is talking about the list below?


    Rev. 17:3 So he carried me away (in the spirit of thought), into the wilderness (of my imagination) and I saw (as if) a woman, (one like Istar, the goddess of those who have Institutionized a system of sexual seduction into a failed matrimony), sit upon a scarlet coloured beast (of a brazen and corrupt sexually misdirected economic system: [Dan 3:1-5]), full of names of (Pagan) blasphemy, having seven heads: (which existed in (1) Egypt, (2) Assyria, (3) Babylon, (4) Persia/Mede, (5) Greece, (6) Rome (7) the whole of Western Culture to follow) having ten horns upon these seven heads:
    (1. Undivided Empire: Diocletian: capital Rome: [305 AD],
    2. Western Roman Empire: (Romulus Augustus): [to 476 AD],
    3. Eastern Roman: Byzantine Empire, [1453 AD
    4. Charlemagne, [800 - 1000 AD]
    5. Holy Roman Empire, [1200 AD-1492 AD]
    6. Italy, [Renaissance, 16th century]
    7. Spain, [17th century]
    8. France, [18th-19th Century]
    9. Britain, [19th-20th century]
    10. Nazi Germany, [20th century])

    11). (America?)
     
  11. domer76

    domer76 New Member

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    It's all hocum, so no.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It's all hocum, so no.
     
  12. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    The evidence points strong towards Mohammed as the false prophet if we consider what Daniel wrote and read Revelation 6:1-8.
    Rev 13 never calls this two horned man a prophet, either.
    And if we recognize that Revelation was written by a Jew, to the first Christians, all Jews, and see that it is about what happens to the Jews we can understand Rev 11 makes this guy Hitler, who had a horn of power with Italy:


    Rev. 11:7 And when they, (the two candlesticks; the House of Jacob and the House of Judah), shall have finished their testimony (against their own messiah ben Joseph, and changed their written texts in he Talmud so as to remove the name of Jesus and their direct protests against him), the (seven headed) beast (of Western civilization) that (had) ascendeth out of the bottomless pit (in The Renaissance) shall make (secular) war against them, (these Jews of the diaspora), and shall overcome them (in 1942), and kill them (with gas and starvation and brutalities).

    Rev. 11:8 And, (the House of Jacob and the house of Judah), their dead bodies shall lie in the street (of Nazi Paganism) of the great city (which is the tenth horn of Western Civilization), which spiritually (in its philosophical outlook) is called Sodom, (a place practicing pagan sexual license and libidinal excess, one to be destroyed by fire) and (that ancient place of Jew trust in the shadow of) Egypt, (the time of their confusion: [Isa. 30:2-3]: Egypt, the land of both their beloved Joseph and also, their slavery), where, (in their blindness of scriptural truth) also our Lord was crucified (among them in 32 AD).

    Rev. 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations (of the 1260 years of the Jewish dispersion among them, the Diaspora), shall not see their dead bodies to be put in graves (but in Concentration Camps) three days (of years) and an half, (i.e.; 1942-1945), and kill them (with gas and starvation and brutalities and crematoriums)
     
  13. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    That sure is a lot of rewriting.
     
  14. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Aw...crap.

    The ONLY reason I clicked on this Topic was because I thought it said....The BREAST Revelation! LOL!!

    I read it too quick and was saying to myself..."Hey!! BREASTS REVEALED!! ALL RIGHT!!!"

    Imagine my bitter disapointment when I started to read the OP and he was talking about some made up BEAST!

    Hush litle baby...don't say a word.
    And nevermind that noise you heard.

    It's just the BEAST under your bed.
    In your closet...in your head.

    EXIT LIGHT. ENTER NIGHT.

    AboveAlpha
     
  15. Hairball

    Hairball Well-Known Member

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    I think it's pretty obvious that the BEAST spoken of in the Bible is actually a kitten, with a huge dong! Shaped just like a guitar in his paws or an Aarvaark or Zebra or something else like that! With a bong in it's tongs!
     
  16. Hairball

    Hairball Well-Known Member

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    When did Stalin do that?
     
  17. Hairball

    Hairball Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe not.

    Maybe that's all just a whole bunch of ridiculous BS
     
  18. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    People have been rewriting scripture forever.. Perhaps it makes them feel important. The Scythians invaded Syria and coastal Palestine hundreds of years before Christ.
     
  19. Hairball

    Hairball Well-Known Member

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    And here I thought they bombed Pearl Harbor gang raped Marylin Monroe...

    WTF?!?
     
  20. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    Yeah.
    The bracketed comments associate what is written to the history that we all know occurred.

    But the rest of Rev 11 is even more convincing that the Holocaust, or ritual burning of the Jews, themselves, was what was meant:

    Rev. 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth, (in Nazi Western Europe), shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send (supposed Christian seasonal) gifts one to another, (like the skin of Jews for lampshades, etc); because these two prophets, (the House of Jacob and the house of Judah, the two candlesticks: [Rev 11:4]), tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

    Rev. 11:11 And after (the Holocaust), three and an half days (of years, 1942-1945), the Spirit of life from God entered into them, (the House of Jacob and the House of Judah: [Rev 11:4]), and they stood upon their feet (in the land Promised); and great fear fell upon them (in Islam) which saw them, (the prophecy of the Fig Tree, blooming was fulfilled: [Matt 24:32).

    Rev. 11:12 And (the survivors), they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither (where all Nations can see). And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud (of history); and their enemies (especially in Palestinia) beheld them.

    Rev. 11:13 And the same hour was there a great "earthquake," (i.e.; Israeli Statehood!!), and the tenth part of the city, (the Promised Land), fell (to the returning Jews), and in the "earthquake" (of their in-gathering) were slain of (muslim) men, seven thousand: and the remnant (Islamic armies) were affrighted, and (all the Judaeo-Christian world) gave glory to the God of heaven (that prophecy had been fulfilled).
     
  21. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Lots of people have tried rewriting Revelation into futuristic events... but, John of Patmos was writing his letter to the seven existing churches as encouragement .. Nero was dead.. the temple was destroyed and would never be rebuilt.. He wrote in apocryphal language and symbols that the people of the first century understood perfectly well.

    The beast was Nero and they were afraid he would be reincarnated and return to persecute Christians. The mark of the beast was a permit to buy and sell which you could only earn by worshipping Caesar once a year ... and that made the Jews very unhappy.
     
  22. Gelecski7238

    Gelecski7238 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Very clever, lifting things written ages ago out of the Bible and finding ways to make them fit over contemporary history. Nostradamus and Bible Code are also impressive, but they don't really tell us what's about to happen next. They only tell us what some of the likely possibilities are. Everything is up in the air until something retrospectively sticks out like a sore thumb.

    Prophecy takes a back seat to free will. Free will is essential to the efficiency and effectiveness a system of progressive evolution. The system uses interactions and complexities to find the best prospects from among a wide variety of unique individual units. Sufficient differentiation and interaction requires units be given a liberal allowance to make choices on their own. There is no such thing as fool-proof prophecy.

    I suggest that the antichrist, the beast, and the false prophet serve only to distract the masses from focusing on self-empowerment and pulling the rug out from under those who would prefer our enslavement.
     
  23. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    There were schools for prophets in Palestine.. They were for the most part "commentators" about things that had already happened or what could happen if people didn't shape up.
     
  24. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    That is one theory.
    But the Jews actually wrote most of the book before John added his own onsights:

    /////
    Jewish Origin.
    The last book in the New Testament canon, yet in fact one of the oldest; probably the only Judeao-Christian work which has survived the Paulinian transformation of the Church. The introductory verse betrays the complicated character of the whole work. It presents the book as a "Revelation which God gave . . . to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass," and at the same time as a revelation of Jesus Christ to "his servant John."

    The anti-Paulinian character of the letters to the seven churches and the anti-Roman character of the apocalyptic section have been a source of great embarrassment, especially to Protestant theologians, ever since the days of Luther; but the apocalypse has become especially important to Jewish students since it has been discovered by Vischer (see bibliography) that the main apocalypse actually belongs to Jewish apocalyptic literature.


    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=460&letter=E&search=Jewish eschatology#1223


    /////

    What you say denies the "revelation" as a prophecy, and makes the whole book totally nonsense, especially Rev 11:7-13 above.

    Maybe you as a muslim can fit in explanation that explain these verse for us historically??
     
  25. cupid dave

    cupid dave Well-Known Member

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    That has always been the case with people like Nostradamas, of course.
    But the Bible just keeps pumping out what will happen even now, 70 years since the Holocaust which it so nicely and completely explains whether one accepts it not.
    And remember that Revelation was a Jewish apocryphal, and it was about Jews, and about Israel, so the verses about Nazi Germany seem very appropriate, indeed.

    Here is what Daniel said and Jesus repeated, for instance:

    Dan. 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away (in 70 AD), and (until) the abomination (of the Dome of the Rock) that maketh desolate set up (in 690 AD), there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days, (1290 + 690 = 1980 AD, the re-dedication of The New Jerusalem as Capital of Israel).

    Dan. 12:12 Blessed is he, (1290 years after the 690 AD construction of the Dome of the Rock, that is: 1980 AD), that waiteth (45 more years), and cometh to (the end), the thousand, three hundred and five and thirty days, (2K25 AD).

    Dan. 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be (in the 21st Century, i.e.; Daniel 12:7 "times, times and half a times"): for thou shalt rest (in the genetic pool of the Jewish people), and stand in thy lot (when drawn again, from the gene pool of man for resurrection in your name and mind) at the end of the days (of Modern Homo sapiens).
     

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