Is 'infinite growth' even possible?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Small_government_caligula, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. Small_government_caligula

    Small_government_caligula Banned

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    I hear conservatives often yammer about the need for growth. Traversing more fringy territory, I have recently met a libertarian derivatives trader from Sweden who claims that infinite growth is not only possible and that only the 'producers' of this growth should have any stake in society. Obviously everyone is familiar with the second argument. My dispute is with the first, and I have a few questions for the conservatives and libertarians who would be kind enough to answer.

    1) Is 'infinite growth' possible?

    2) If it is, what does the prerequisite political background have to look like for it to work?

    3) What is the end result of infinite growth?

    Thanks.
     
  2. NetworkCitizen

    NetworkCitizen New Member

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    Excellent question. I also have the same question about the expected infinite growth of capitalism. Anyone who has worked for a large corporation knows that their quarterly fiscal report will mention "growth" at least 5 times. I do not see how infinite growth is possible unless the population/market is also growing infinitely.
     
  3. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

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    Only if there's infinite space to grow into, and infinite resources to fuel that growth.

    Could be. But it would have to be managed pretty carefully.
     
  4. jmpet

    jmpet New Member

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    America has what? 330 million people in it? We can hold a billion easily AND feed and clothe them with existing resources. So yeah- there is room for much growth in America... enough room even for another Bill Gates to come along... so yeah we can stand to doube and triple in all regards here in America.
     
  5. NetworkCitizen

    NetworkCitizen New Member

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    You just gave a large crowd of anti-human progressives a stroke.
    :mrgreen:
     
  6. jmpet

    jmpet New Member

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    The more the merrier! Bring 'em all in! Legalize all those illegal Mexicans!

    As long as they can all maintain a lifestyle and be faithful tax paying subjects I say bring 'em on!

    Thomas Jefferson said it would take 100 generations to populate the midwest- it took 3-4 generations. In that vein, I say we got room for a billion- and we really do! Have you visited the midwest, southwest... have you been to Tucson? It's got room for 5 million!
     
  7. MissJonelyn

    MissJonelyn New Member

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    Economies grow and contract. It's been happening since the birth of this nation. It's been happening for as long as their been economies.
     
  8. Small_government_caligula

    Small_government_caligula Banned

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    Yeah but this nutjob's argument was that you can have infinite growth in a true, 1000% deregulated capitalist economy and that the only thing preventing it right now is the government. He continues by saying that there will be booms and busts, still, but the very fact that the government is "out of the way" will make everyone prosper a thousandfold and that it would essentially be a perfect society.

    I'm looking for conservatives and libertarians here who can beat some sense into this wacko's nice little Austrian "theory" without straying from the main question: can we just keep growing forever?
     
  9. MissJonelyn

    MissJonelyn New Member

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    The same people thought they could keep interests rates low and housing prices high forever.

    I'm not in the habit of changing anyone else's world view. Some people just need a rude awakening in order to get with the program. And still, some people never learn.
     
  10. BTeamBomber

    BTeamBomber Well-Known Member

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    It all depends on where that growth happens. Right now, the media and major financial firms have a skewed sense of "growth" related to the Dow and the S&P 500, basically relating the financial success of the economy to GDP growth, the growth of the Dow and job created numbers. What they don't measure in those markers and tend to ignore are median income markers, inflation adjustments to income, and small business growth and employment. If infinite growth means the Dow rising infinitely, then I don't want that to happen.

    The best case scenario for the future success of the American economy is for the Dow companies and S&P companies to actually get SMALLER, while a foundation of small businesses, local companies and local employees rise up from the wreckage of our economy support real job growth, real salary increases, and real GDP growth. Every Walmart that opens up in small town USA puts 20 business owners (at least) out of businesses and reduces their salaries to lower management at that Walmart. I'd rather see the Dow at 6000 and jobs return to main street. That type of environment (built on local investment and small loans, rather than massive, clumsy IPO creation) has infinite potential.

    Monopolized markets (currently the norm) will always reach a peak where competition disappears, demand is regulated, and growth has to be manipulated. Not to mention the fact (as we've seen) that the entire house of cards can crumble at any small panic in the marketplace when one of the monopolies finally explodes. A 500 point drop in the Dow doesn't affect a local independent business (most times), and even now those economic markers are better.

    I'd love to see a national politician that was actually willing to tell corporate America to go *bleep* itself and then come forward with genuine benefits and advantages that favor the local business owners drive their success. 100 small business owners means a MASSIVE amount more success for every community (better tax base, better services, better schools, better home values, better benefits) than 3 chain store business in yoru community and nothing else. The bottom line and short term visions are all that the 24 hour media deluded public can swallow anymore. No one (including politicians, investors and the public) wants to grind out a real economy. We all want 10% returns every year or else we'll vote for the other side next time. Thats a ridiculous belief but its the truth of our society. .
     
  11. BTeamBomber

    BTeamBomber Well-Known Member

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    Our depleted water supplies and the rest of the worlds resources that we consume (almost 25% to be accurate) disagree. The reason the southwest isnt' that populated is because there isn't enough fresh water to supply that many people. If you doubled our nations size in the next 20 years, we could have some serious shortages of fresh water. If technology doesn't catch up in terms of purification, we might not even be able to sustain our current population. Economic growth with be the least of our problems at that point.
     

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