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Thread: Social security a ponzi scheme? the righties are at it again

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by hiimjered View Post
    I have life insurance on both my wife and I. I also have disability on her (my job provides disability for me.)

    Even you have that attitude, by deciding that people aren't responsible enough to be trusted to take care of themselves.

    Leave people alone to live their own lives in their own way.
    Don't lose your job. I'd say that you are in the minority, having private life insurance. The policy I bought, when I was in my early 20's was state of the art in the late 50's. It was a $10K policy.

    later when I saw how inflation made it pretty useless and looked into a new policy the terms offered me were to high to consider.

    And we should consider human nature. Most people won't plan for their future. They are too busy trying to get through the now. With the wage stagnation we now have most have trouble putting food on the table and keeping a roof over their heads.

    When we leave people alone to live their own lives we end up with masses on welfare.

    I'd prefer people on SS than on welfare.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiberalActivist View Post
    Uh, yeah... ss isnt' a ponzi scheme. lol.

    Ponzi schemes are ILLEGAL. Social Security is not only legal, but ran by the government themselves! rofl!

    Social Security has a big ass trust fund! pwned again, righties

    SS is FREE!!! lol

    looks like I just showed the necons. Watch, they'll come up with some lame argument against this.
    good thing I'm not a rightie.
    Wielding this incredible piece of literary genius, I'd be putty in your hands.
    What the two parties fight over is not alternative political visions and different legislative agendas, but which party gets to be the whore for Wall Street, the military-security complex, Israel Lobby, agribusiness, and energy, mining, and timber interests. - Paul Craig Roberts

  4. Icon15

    Social Security in the red for 2011...

    Social Security Ran $45 Billion Deficit in 2011
    February 14, 2012 – Social Security ran a deficit of approximately $45 billion in 2011, according to official government figures and CNSNews.com calculations. That figure is slightly lower than the $49 billion deficit the government reported in 2010.
    Social Security had been projected to run a $46 billion deficit in 2011, according to the 2011 report from the program’s trustees that covered 2010. According to Social Security Administration (SSA) figures, the program was in the red eight months out of the year, and needed to draw on its trust fund in order to pay benefits. The average deficit during those months was $6.3 billion.

    SSA data indicate that the program paid out approximately $714 billion in benefits during 2011 while taking in $669 billion in payroll taxes – a deficit of $45 billion. The deficit figure is preliminary, however, because SSA only reported estimated benefit payments for October, November, and December of 2011. The final deficit figure could therefore be slightly higher or lower, depending on the final benefit figures for those three months.

    The estimated benefit payment figures for the last three months of 2011 are lower on average than the actual benefit payments SSA reported. If the final figures for October, November and December end up being closer to those of benefit payments made throughout the year, then Social Security’s deficit for 2011 would be higher than the $45 billion estimate. This will be the second year since 1983 that the program has run a cash deficit, a trend its trustees expect to continue until the program completely exhausts its trust funds in 2036.

    Social Security is in fact already insolvent because its trust funds are invested in non-marketable Treasury bills, not in real assets. In other words, the trust funds contain no cash or other assets, merely special Treasury bonds indicating that one government account – the Treasury’s General Fund – owes another government account – the Social Security trust funds – money. Both the principal and the interest on those special bonds are paid out of General Fund tax revenue – the same as with any other government spending program.

    Source
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom - Vulcan proverb

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by starcraftzzz View Post
    SS returns 25% more benefits then private counterparts meaning when the right advocate privatizing SS they advocate makign you 25% poorer
    Do you have a source for that statement?
    TANSTAAFL

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by starcraftzzz View Post
    SS returns 25% more benefits then private counterparts meaning when the right advocate privatizing SS they advocate makign you 25% poorer
    SS returns are borrowed in order to pay you.
    What the two parties fight over is not alternative political visions and different legislative agendas, but which party gets to be the whore for Wall Street, the military-security complex, Israel Lobby, agribusiness, and energy, mining, and timber interests. - Paul Craig Roberts

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by starcraftzzz View Post
    You can do the math yourself
    http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djia1900.html
    http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/...JavaBox=no#Mid
    http://www.juancole.com/2010/09/hell...ur-crisis.html

    SS returns 26% more benefits then private counter parts

    http://tcf.org/media-center/pdfs/pr46/12badideas.pdf
    ^Privatized SS in Chile and UK resulted in administration cost increasing by 13-20 times.

    http://www.epi.org/publication/issuebriefs_ib161-2/
    Your first three links seem to be irrelevant, I'm not sure why you posted them.

    The fourth is pretty useful, but notice it assumes that no portion of the Social Security money would go toward a disability insurance. Only a tiny portion would be needed to fund disability insurance, leaving the rest for personal retirement funds.

    Regardless, it is the last link that I found most interesting. It admits that people born before 1965 can only expect an average return of 2.7%. It doesn't even mention the expected returns of people born later - which falls under 2%. Still, the average, balanced retirement account sees a far greater rate of return. The average mutual fund sees between a 6% and 9% average rate of return. Even the bottom side is more than double what older people can expect from Social Security and more than triple what younger people can expect.
    TANSTAAFL

  8. #27

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    Ronald Reagan - who many revere more than George Washington - once said that Social Security was a Ponzi scheme; and the way he ran it, it was.

  9. Icon17

    Dat's why Granny wants dat 2nd stimulus check - to make up the shortfall...

    Social Security Faces Unfunded Liability of $8.6T, or $73,167.83 Per Household
    April 24, 2012 - Social Security faces an unfunded liability of $8.6 trillion, according to the 2012 Annual Report of the Board of Trustees of the Federal Old-Age and Survivors Insurance and Federal Disability Insurance Trust Funds.
    The unfunded liability is the amount that has been promised in benefits to people now alive that will not be funded by the tax revenue the system is expected to take in to pay for those benefits. (The Social Security trustees calculate the unfunded liability for a period of 75 years into the future, from 2012 to 2086)

    The $8.6 trillion in unfunded benefits Social Security is expected to pay over the next 75 years equals $73,167.83 for each of the 117,538,000 households the Census Bureau said were in the United States in 2010.

    However, the report also shows that when considering the unfunded obligations over an “infinite horizon”—the period extending into the indefinite future—the $8.6 trillion shortfall balloons to $20.5 trillion. “Extending the horizon beyond 75 years increases the measured unfunded obligation,” the report said. “Through the infinite horizon, the unfunded obligation, or shortfall, equals $20.5 trillion in present value, which represents 3.9 percent of future taxable payroll or 1.3 percent of future GDP,” reads the report. The report adds that the 2012 estimate for unfunded obligations over the infinite horizon has increased from the $17.9 trillion in the 2011 report.

    Source
    See also:

    Social Security’s financial forecast gets darker; Medicare’s outlook unchanged
    Surging energy prices and a slower-than-expected economic recovery have worsened the financial outlook for Social Security compared with last year, while the picture for Medicare remains grim but essentially unchanged, according to annual forecasts released by the government Monday.
    The trustees overseeing Social Security reported that the program’s trust fund will be depleted by 2033 — three years earlier than projected last year. After that, incoming Social Security tax revenue will cover only three-fourths of the benefits scheduled to be paid out through 2086, requiring Congress to either increase taxes or reduce benefits. The fiscal health of Social Security declined even more precipitously according to another, somewhat technical measure. This statistic reflects the difference over the next 75 years between projected benefits and the expected annual income of the American workers whose taxes will finance them. This measure reached its worst level since the early 1980s, when the trust fund’s imminent insolvency prompted Congress to enact a variety of changes.

    At a news conference to release Monday’s reports, administration officials and program trustees took turns urging Congress to come up with the kind of bipartisan solution that has long eluded it. “Never since the 1983 reforms have we come as close to the point of trust fund depletion as we are right now,” warned Charles Blahous, one of the trustees for Medicare and Social Security. “Our window for dealing with [the shortfall] without substantially disruptive consequences is closing fairly rapidly.” Social Security’s bleak outlook is primarily driven by the ever-larger numbers of people in the baby boom generation entering retirement.

    And the trustees said a major reason that this year’s 75-year forecast was worse than the last was simply that they were measuring one year further into the future. They also pointed to two unforeseen economic factors: Rising energy prices necessitated a larger cost-of-living increase to benefits, and worker earnings — and the resulting payroll taxes used to pay for Social Security — were lower than than expected. In both cases, the impact will resound for years. The trustees projected that Medicare’s trust fund, which covers the part of the program that funds hospital care, will run out in 2024, the same estimate in last year’s report.

    At that point, incoming revenue from Medicare taxes will be enough to cover 87 percent of annual expenses. That share will decline to about 67 percent by mid-century, then rise to 69 percent by 2085.Those figures are slightly worse than last year’s projections. The trustees attributed the difference to changes in methodology that they adopted on the recommendation of a technical advisory panel. For the third year running, Medicare’s nonpartisan chief actuary, Rick Foster, attached a letter to the report warning that the program’s true long-term prospects are even more dire than projected because the trustees made the “unreasonable” assumption that Congress will not overrule substantial Medicare spending curbs in President Obama’s 2010 health-care law.

    MORE
    Last edited by waltky; Apr 24 2012 at 03:34 PM.
    Logic is the beginning of wisdom - Vulcan proverb

  10. Default

    Another liberal idiot that doesn't know what he's talking about or isn't qualified for SS and probably didn't finish grade school. SS is paid into by working over the years and is withdrawn monthly after your retired which I don't think you know anything about. My Pappy always said " if you don't know what your talking about keep your mouth shut that way you won't look so stupid " STUPID.

  11. Default

    I really don't know where you left wing idiots come from but to say SS is free then your really a joke, you have to pay into SS to get it but that means working. Please go to another Forum that will listen to your idiodic fan fare and let other people discuss issues that know what their talking about.

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