The problem with evolutionist

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by its about Liberty, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. its about Liberty

    its about Liberty New Member

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    Evolutionist proclaim life had spontaneously arose from some sort of "primordial soup". but to go from a barren lifeless planet to a one filled with living things, we would have to pass through a number of stages:
    For starters we need a favorable environment for life to evolve and be sustained. We would need a means of constructing the building blocks of life. Proteins, DNA, RNA, etc.) - Some the simple molecules must be assembled into biologically useful large molecules. Biological systems such as energy conversion must be constructed. And finally, all these molecules and systems must be assembled together to form a highly complex living cell. http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/ol0.htm
    Another impediment is oxygen. The presence of oxygen in a hypothetical primordial atmosphere poses a difficult problem for notions of self-assembling molecules. If oxygen is present, there would be no amino acids, sugars, purines, etc. Amino acids and sugars react with oxygen to form carbon dioxide (CO2) and water.
    http://emporium.turnpike.net/C/cs/ol1.htm
    To be sure this "premordial soup" could not of bubbled into life as evolutionist would have you believe. Then to go beyond proteins, DNA and RNA, and to assemble them into a working biological system is another mystery. We must go from disjointed molecules to complex interrelated systems that are capable of self-maintenance and self-replication. This takes more faith than to believe in a loving and compasionate God.
    Now we cross the line from the molecular to the living. Whether bacteria, animals, plants or people, we all have cells.
    Cells consist of many biological elements that are enclosed in a cell membrane that allows certain molecules to pass out of it and let others in. It must be able to perform many functions: self-replicate, maintain itself by the construction of new proteins, regulate it's functions, etc.

    Cells are tremendously complex and more complicated than any machine man has ever built. Even the smallest bacterial cell has 100 proteins, DNA, RNA, and contains one hundred billion atoms. To explain the evolution of the cell requires imagining simpler "proto-cells". One such idea by Francis Crick (Denton 1985, 265) uses a proto-cell that is allowed to make mistakes in protein formation (termed "statistical proteins") to create new systems. This is challenged by the knowledge that even small errors cause devastating biological consequences. Darwin's theory was that a process of random mutation, sex and death, allowing the "fittest" to survive and reproduce, and the less fit to die without reproducing, would, over the course of billions of years, produce millions of species out of inert, primordial goo. The vast majority of mutations are deleterious to the organism, so if the mutations were really random, then for every mutation that was desirable, there ought to be a staggering number that are undesirable. Otherwise, the mutations aren't random, they are deliberate -- and then you get into all the hocus-pocus about "intelligent design" and will probably start speaking in tongues and going to NASCAR races.
    http://www.anncoulter.com/
    I couldnt resist. This is alot of information to support intelligent design. But I have to admit all I really need is faith to believe in God. From my perspective God created Pangaea,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangaea. and from that alll sort's of animals lived and died. but for continental drift to achieve current day borders is obvious. That must of taken millions of years.Then we need "intermediate fossils" But We don't have fossils for any intermediate creatures in the process of evolving into something better. This is why the late Stephen Jay Gould of Harvard referred to the absence of transitional fossils as the "trade secret" of paleontology. (Lots of real scientific theories have "secrets.") Actually it has proven quite to the contrary. fossil records showed vast numbers of new species suddenly appearing out of nowhere, remaining largely unchanged for millions of years, and then disappearing. From the resoures Ive read and cited I can draw the conclusion that most people hear about evolution and say ,yea that sounds about right. But little thought goes into the problems with evolution as a theory. Darwin is at a disadvantage though. His theory is just that, theory and must be scrutinised by scientist as well as those who support it. Christianity or theology only needs faith of individual for it to stand. for either to be taught in school exclusive of the other is wrong. When the Governent says local school boards must teach evolution, they should also teach the flaws of such theory. Or they become mouthpieces for idealog acedemics.
     
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  2. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    Which of the 250 or so creation myths from around the world is your truth?
     
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  3. iJoeTime

    iJoeTime Banned

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    This is my problem with your argument, and I believe many non-theists will agree. Evolution is backed by years of scientific research and findings, yet theists say it must be held to a level of scientific scrutiny that they wont, or cant, apply to intelligent design or creationism.
     
  4. Newscaster

    Newscaster Banned

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    So, is evolution real?
     
  5. My Fing ID

    My Fing ID Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  6. iJoeTime

    iJoeTime Banned

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    Good point. That number is unfathomable. We see only the tiniest sliver of existence, yet theists have the audacity to claim they understand its creator or purpose...
     
  7. krunkskimo

    krunkskimo New Member

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    I think you're refering to "Abiogensisist," not "Evolutionist."

    either way, 4 billion years ago (when we beleive life first arose) there was very little oxygen in the atmopshere.

    Of course creationist cannot fathome a earth without oxygen since they beleive it was created only 6,000 years ago and looked like it does today.

    and cells are to hard, complex, ect is not an argument.
     
  8. Photonic

    Photonic Banned

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    The computer is too complex for most people, but there aren't many who see that as magic anymore.

    I hope...
     
  9. its about Liberty

    its about Liberty New Member

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    An attempt to attack my religion rather than debate my Op.
     
  10. its about Liberty

    its about Liberty New Member

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    But evolution cannot answer the obvious question's relative to life. i.e. intermediate species for one.
     
  11. its about Liberty

    its about Liberty New Member

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    So your taking that on faith??
     
  12. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a valid question to me. You gave some pretty good details on the theory of evolution. If you want your faith taught in schools, you'll have to give similar details.
     
  13. its about Liberty

    its about Liberty New Member

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    I dont know about that, continental drift proves the earth is millions or billions of years old. I accept that however no hard evidence exists on how protiens turned into animals
     
  14. its about Liberty

    its about Liberty New Member

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    I would never advocate states teach any form of religion. but if your gonna teach evolution as theory you would have to teach its pitfalls also.
     
  15. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    LOL only 300,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the universe. Then I guess beyond those stars the universe suddenly stops. I believe that there is an infinite amount of stars in the universe
     
  16. iJoeTime

    iJoeTime Banned

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    According to the big bang theory, yes, there are finite amount of stars. How they estimate that number is somewhat in question. The universe is expanding as a result of the big bang explosion. What is beyond that limit.. well we may and probably will never know.
     
  17. IrishLefty

    IrishLefty New Member

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    No friend, as a Christian I can tell you that's a good point.
     
  18. saintmichaeldefendthem

    saintmichaeldefendthem New Member Past Donor

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    This over-rehearsed argument has been cited time and time again as "proof" of life on other planets. It proves absolutely nothing. In fact, the space alien theory hinges heavily on the evolutionist model, that the right conditions for life would eventually produce life without the intervention of a Creator. Evolutionists need millions of years for their theories to play out, but in fact, it's not enough time, because the odds of life springing from simple amino acids are so astronomical that there isn't a single chance in 13 billion years, the age of the universe.

    When it comes to belief in space aliens, there is a marked disbelief in an Intelligent Designer because if life exists on other planets, it could only be because that Designer willed it to be. The space alien zealots don't want the existence of ET to be subject to the whims of a Creator, but their theory doesn't work out on a mathematical scale of probability either.
     
  19. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    So POOF, 14 billion years ago at some random point in infinity, X amount of matter POOFs into existance and blows up. I guess we live near the center of the universe then. If a "big bang" can happen at location X, who's to say that one can't happen at location Y? I bet "big bangs" happen all the time threw infinity.
     
  20. saintmichaeldefendthem

    saintmichaeldefendthem New Member Past Donor

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    Then the universe ceases to exist. There are so many problems with your statement that it astounds me that you didn't even take 5 seconds to think about it.
     
  21. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    You fall off the edge of the universe if you travel to far... LOL

    Point them out. My thoughts are way ahead of there time :twisted:
     
  22. Someone

    Someone New Member

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    Not only are we currently observing transitional species (all species are presently evolving), but we've even found examples in the fossil record. This is quite remarkable, given how exceptionally rare fossilization is. We'll never have a record of most species that have lived on Earth, because their remains were never fossilized or were destroyed by geologic processes.
     
  23. Someone

    Someone New Member

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    That's actually a "playing the odds" argument.
     
  24. TheGreatSatan

    TheGreatSatan Banned

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    If life can exist here, it has to exist in other places too. If it can exist, it does exist. It's existed before, and will exist again. Its the nature of energy. It always takes the easiest path. Like water.
     
  25. Someone

    Someone New Member

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    Except, you know, the massive piles of evidence we have demonstrating the process. Once you get to proteins and self-replication, evolution takes over. You're questioning where the proteins and self-replicators came from, which is abiogenesis, not evolution. Going from simple proto-cells to animals has been demonstrated, with quite a lot of evidence. Where the proto-cells came from is less certain, but definitely did not involve god.
     

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