Obamacare to Supreme Court

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Bluesguy, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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  2. Blackrook

    Blackrook Banned

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    The Supreme Court usually gives deference to Congress, but it is quite a stretch to say the commerce clause gives Congress the power to require Americans to purchase health insurance.
     
  3. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    if they ahve the power to tax, then why wouldnt they ahve the power to tax if you dont have insurance....

    ify ou can get a tax credit for having kids or be able to write off your mortgage, why couldnt they tax you more if you dont have inusrance?
     
  4. keymanjim

    keymanjim New Member Past Donor

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    Drunk already?
     
  5. Rapunzel

    Rapunzel New Member Past Donor

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    Who knows, maybe the 11th circuit court of appeals refused to hear it.
     
  6. stretch351c

    stretch351c New Member

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    While the Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate commerce, it does not give Congress the power to require people to engage in commerce. Which is what Obamacare does.
     
  7. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    are you saying that the threat of paying more taxes is the same as requiring you to do something?

    does that mean there is a mandate to have children?
     
  8. Antix

    Antix New Member

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    Commerce Clause:

    'To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes".

    Regulating commerce does not include regulating commerce within states themselves, but between them.

    Commerce is defined as "intercource" which not only includes buying and selling, but the transport of goods, which is why rivers/oceans and air is federally regulated, and not regulated by states.

    I agree, the commerce clause is a pretty weak argument by itself, but as others have pointed out: The ability to tax is another story. If they argue that the "Necessary and Proper Clause" gives them the "Implied Power" to create regulation to implement an individual mandate, I see it as possible.

    Big Hint: Social Security is a form of an individual mandate in the form of a tax.

    It all depends on the argument they bring to the SC. If they rely purely on the commerce clause, they may lose as has happened when certain statutes have been passed that could have been seen as "constitutional" if they were only argued using different clauses in the constitution to justify the law.

    But I do think its possible that even if the US SC deems the law unconstitutional, the congress could levy a tax on people who dont buy healthcare for themselves, which would not be an individual mandate per se. They do this in the prison system currently:

    Since they cannot FORCE prisoners to work, they take privilages away from them if they choose not to work. Some choose not to, but most work so they can enjoy the privilages.

    Healthy people might just consider buying health insurance instead of paying a % tax on their income, considering health insurance should be cheaper for healthier people. But unhealthy people, who would have a high insurance bill might be better off taking the % tax because it might end up to be cheaper.

    I dont agree with the law one bit, but I dont think anyone can foresee what the SC is going to do, nor the effects the law will have on cost and quality.

    *popcorn*
     
  9. Antix

    Antix New Member

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    Well, lets be honest, we know they are too different means to the same end. But legally, in the context you are speaking in, no they are not the same.

    On thge other hand, imposing more taxes does require you to "pay more taxes." SO the imposition does require you to do something.
     
  10. HB Surfer

    HB Surfer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ... and any US Supreme Court Justice that does not recognize this fact is not fit to sit on the bench. They should be removed.
     
  11. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  12. Lethal

    Lethal New Member

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    Since the supreme court is mostly republican we know what will happen. If it were mostly democrat, it would be the opposite. The world we live in...
     
  13. Piscivorous

    Piscivorous New Member

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    In essence, forcing ObamaCare upon the American people is akin to it being a requirement to being a citizen.
     
  14. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

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    It's not a revenue tax though. Even the law itself says that it is a punishment fine.

    A tax has to have a legitimate revenue raising function, not levied as a punishment.
     
  15. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    How can a revenue raiser not have a revenue raising function?
     
  16. Crafty

    Crafty Well-Known Member

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    By your logic congress could pass a law that says you have to go to church or pay a tax and you think that would be constitutional?
     
  17. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    So you are admitting is IS a new tax and therefore a tax on the middle class?
     
  18. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    The WH bypassed them as is their prerogative.
     
  19. The Mello Guy

    The Mello Guy Well-Known Member

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    Absent the 1st it would be.

    They can mak me pay more for choosing to rent instead of buying a home
     
  20. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    Historical precedent shows that to be false. Congress has required people to engage in commerce and buy private goods in the past.
     
  21. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

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    Such as?.........
     
  22. Never Left

    Never Left Banned

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  23. Bearack

    Bearack Well-Known Member

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    They can? I'm curious to how that is possible?
     
  24. Questerr

    Questerr Banned

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    The Militia Act forced all male citizens to buy firearms.
     
  25. Consmike

    Consmike New Member Past Donor

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    When you have a child, that is a tax credit, not a tax cut from paying more taxes.
     

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