Tea Party vs. Occupy Wall Street

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by iJoeTime, Oct 6, 2011.

  1. iJoeTime

    iJoeTime Banned

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    Question for discussion:

    Why is the Tea Party's anti-government protesting considered Patriotic but the 'Occupy' protest of unaccountable Coporate bailouts and political process interference, anti-American?


    Sean Hannity on the Tea Party in 2009:
    "You know, the average American Taxpayer knows that at the end of the day they are going to be on the hook for the trillions and trillions of dollars that we are using to bail out these companies, some of whom that have been irresponsible, and they are expressing their frustration. Which I think is quintessentially American"

    Sean Hannity this week on occupy wall street:
    "They hate corporations, they hate capitalism, and in the end ultimately want statism over free markets. They just really don't like freedom."


    Huh?? What has changed?

    Makes me think that maybe these two groups have more in common then they want to admit.


    Please keep it Civil.
     
  2. dudeman

    dudeman New Member

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    Wall Street did create "credit default swaps" (i.e. a metaphor for fraud) and the valuation of a common stock is basically an auction. It's relation to the owners claim rights if the company goes under is nonexistent. Thus, I agree with a reform of Wall Street. However, as I have said before, this might be a can of worms best left unopened. When the real debt that the USA owes is uncovered and the real asset value of houses, the dollar, etcetera is defined, the USA will be a very different place. There should be some media practice so that people answering questions don't sound like retarded communists.
     
  3. Jack Ridley

    Jack Ridley New Member

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    How are CDOs fraud?
     
  4. dudeman

    dudeman New Member

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    A mortgage is given to a stripper based upon "stated income" for a house in northern New Jersey for $300,000. The debt is "monetized" and sold as an investment. This is reality. I knew the stripper and I knew the person who sold the mortgage. I only heard about the "credit default swap". Of course, the stripper aged and could no longer pay the bills. Another default. Call it tulips if you like, I call it fraud.
     
  5. maat

    maat Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Tea Party's intent is to clean the bath water for the baby(free americans).

    The Occupy Wall Streeters wish to through the baby out with the dirty water.
     
  6. Funktopia

    Funktopia New Member

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    Because the Tea Party is pro-Republican and Occupy Wall Street isn't(thankfully NOT pro-Democrat). Duh.
     
  7. Jack Ridley

    Jack Ridley New Member

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    I still fail to see how packaging loans as investments is fraud.
     
  8. dudeman

    dudeman New Member

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    is different that packaging "faulty loans". If you don't see that stated income is not real income (i.e. reported to the IRS), there is nothing to discuss here.
     
  9. FearandLoathing

    FearandLoathing Well-Known Member

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    It depends on who you're listening to. I've seen some pretty nasty stuff in here directed at the Tea Party.

    Both are radical. The Occupy people, though, reflect a new, far more acute turn to the left than what Americans have seen before.

    Take a look at their "demands":

    I would say that "Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment." amounts to a welfare state, and knowing the independent leanings of most Americans that is rather frightening.

    The fact that most of their demands are asinine makes them easy to attack. Demanding and end to free trade and a $20 dollar an hour minimum wage...well, let's just say they are unrealistic.
     
  10. Jack Ridley

    Jack Ridley New Member

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    I understand THAT, but that issue isn't unique to CDOs.
     
  11. dudeman

    dudeman New Member

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    Jack Ridley, are arguing minutia.

    Wall Street was fully aware of these fraudulent loans. If they were not aware of the fraudulent loans, your argument would hold water. The ignorance claim complicates things but is really just a legalized excuse. Of course, that brings up Clinton, Frank and Dodd, three heroes among the left, who were instrumental in putting an arm lock on mortgage lenders to provide high risk loans. The "rabbit hole" goes very deep.
     
  12. cirussell

    cirussell New Member

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    Interestingly enough the tea party was formed in no small part as a reaction to the Wall Street bailouts. If you look at the votes against the bailouts most came from staunch republicans with some support from staunch liberals.

    The difference between the two is that the tea party has never attempted to shut down commerce and seek to move the country back from statist policies to free market principals while the Occupy Wall Steet gang want to do the exact opposite.

    Funny how a point of agreement can lead to such divergent movements.
     
  13. Jack Ridley

    Jack Ridley New Member

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    When you subscribe to The Wall Street Journal, The Economist, and The Financial Times, distinctions about stuff like that stop being minutiae.
     
  14. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    They both see cronie capitalism and want to abolish it. The TEA party sees the government as the problem for enabling the crony capitalism while the OW crowd sees the bankers as the ones being the problem. The TEA party says "stop spending our money", while OWS say "spend more of their money". The TEA party says we all need to work harder and everyone is invited to make America great, the OWS says "the Jews run the banks, media, and government". Both groups see the same problem, one wants to correct it by votes and making the current system run smoother, while the new group yells out racial epithets and wants to create an entire new system. Guess we aren't really surprised that the wisher to be dictator in chief wants the "new system" to be the legit voice of Americans.
     
  15. Frogger

    Frogger Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Tea Party does not cause disruptions during their gatherings. They do not try to commandeer the Brooklyn Bridge, they do not call the police pigs, they do not clog roadways so that people can't get to work.

    The Wall Street occupiers do all the above.
     
  16. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    Arrests for TEA party rallies? 0 in 3 years.
    Arrests for OWS rallies? ~770 in 3 weeks.
     
  17. dudeman

    dudeman New Member

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    However, using an SAT analogy with no other answers

    Saul Goodman : Methamphetamine manufacture::

    Wall Street : Mortgage fraud
     
  18. MissJonelyn

    MissJonelyn New Member

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    How the hell do they have anything in common?

    One group wants a welfare socialist state. The other wants nothing like that, let alone any from of expansive Government intrusion.

    They couldn't be more polar opposites.
     
  19. penguin1634

    penguin1634 New Member

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    Of course. Just completely ruin America's competitiveness. Why the hell should we raise the minimum wage to 20 dollars an hour? Because these smelly hippies don't make enough money?
    Great. Completely remove any innovation from the healthcare system.
    I guess the hippies are mad that they can't get something for nothing.
    Why? I guess their art history degree won't pay for itself, huh?
    Because that has been working smoothly so far hasn't it.
    Only one I agree with.
    Great idea... sure. Let's just completely take the only feasible power solution outside of fossil fuel out of the picture. Sounds great!
    We already have one. It's called the civil rights act, and there's another one called the bill of rights.
    Great, I'm sure that'll work out just fine.
    Uhh, great. Perhaps this'll prevent Mickey Mouse from casting his ballot for Obama in '12.
    Looks like the hipster that wrote this little number doesn't understand how the global economy works.
    Why? Because S&P downgraded the country?


    Good to know we have some intelligent, thoughtful people out protesting.
     
  20. cirussell

    cirussell New Member

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    Yep. That sums it up very well.
     
  21. iJoeTime

    iJoeTime Banned

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    Opposition to unaccountable Government Bailouts. That's 1 thing.
     
  22. Sooner28

    Sooner28 New Member

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    IDK about discussions about patriotism. But I think the TEA(Taxed Enough Already, see conservatives, some liberals do know what it stands for) party and the Occupy Wall-Street movement (if you want to call them that) seem to have a little bit of common ground in they think that bailouts suck and the government is not on the side of the majority of people.
     
  23. cirussell

    cirussell New Member

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    1) $20/hr minimum wage
    2) Receive that wage regardless of work status.
    3) Open borders

    What could possibly go wrong with that? LOL

    BTW Can you really say both are radical with a straight face? LOL.
     
  24. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

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    WTF is this (*)(*)(*)(*)? This is OUTRIGHT EUROPEAN SOCIAL DEMOCRACY.

    If these demands were met, I swear.. and I mean it and I don't care what anyone says.. if these demands were truly met.. I would revolt against the United States of America and become as much a terrorist as Al Alawki. I'd rather be killed by The State standing up and fighting against it, than live as a tax slave.

    There is nothing in that list that is American in the least.

    They really do hate free markets and capitalism. I haven't seen a demands list like this since the days the Red Brigades were bombing discos in Italy and Germany!
     
  25. MissJonelyn

    MissJonelyn New Member

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    The very same people who are against bailouts were the very same people who said it needed to happen. For people who seem to hate the free market they seem to like the free market only when it's convenient.

    They don't know what they want. They just know they don't want to work for anything that they get.
     

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