Hammer of the Gods - Led Zeppelin

Led Zeppelin is arguably the best rock and roll band of all time. Comprised of John Bonham on drums, Jimmy Page on guitar, John Paul Jones on base and keyboards, and Robert Plant as the lead singer they were a group where the synergy of the group exceeded the individual talents of the members.

This is not to dispute the overwhelming talent of the individuals. Jimmy Page's roots with the Yardbirds is legendary and John Paul Jone's musical roots in formal classical training speak volumes of that talent. John Bonham's driving drum work is legendary as well as Robert Plants vocals and performances as Led Zeppelin's leadman.

So while not addressing the total synergy of the group I would like for other members to provide their opinion on who, as an individual, was the most important member of Led Zeppelin? I would invite videos that support the selections of others.

We can all enjoy the music of Led Zeppelin and perhaps gain some understanding and insight it the the Hammer of the Gods.

 

My personal pick is John Paul Jones. Not only did Jones provide the driving bass for Led Zeppelin his keyboard work on such songs as Kashmere, basically replacing an entire string section, was totally awesome.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84t4_Cfei-Y"]Kashmir- Led-Zeppelin - YouTube[/ame]

 

I liked Jimmy Page the most, but I didn't vote because Robert Plant was awesome, too, and I couldn't choose one over the other.

My favorite song of all time is "Stairway to Heaven." I don't know what it means, but I really like it.

I'd post some LZ videos, but I can't get them to show up here. Only the URL appears. Can someone tell me how to make a youtube video appear? I've done it here before, but it's not working for me now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YZb8s7Kxa4&feature=related

 

If they're in You Tube copy the url address. If you have a problem then send me a PM with the link to the video and I'll edit it into your post. I've added the link to Stairway to Heaven to your post above.

Oops. It didn't work for me to add the image but the link is valid and works fine.

 

There is no question that both Robert Plant and Jimmy Page were awesome but then again so were John Paul Jones and John Bonham. It is not an easy choice for anyone.

 

I don't know what your politics are, TD, but each member of Led Zep was a vitruoso. My favorite group all time with the possible exception of Pink Floyd.

 

I think my vote went to Page only because of "It Might Get Loud".

 

As someone who likes to play guitar, I had to go with Jimmy Page. But I agree Led Zepplin is arguably one of best rock bands ever. They produced so much good music... not just good, but groundbreaking... epic. I also have to say that the U.K. in general has produced a massive amount of good rock bands, and metal bands today.



Led Zeppelin has a bit of sentimental value as well, lots of good memories with various LZ songs as the sound track. For example, the first time I got drunk... and realized it, Black Dog was blaring in the background, which seemed to amplify the experience.

Currently my favorite Led Zeppelin tune:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BjiRKBC05c"]Led Zeppelin - The Battle of Evermore - YouTube[/ame]

 

I don't disagree as Led Zeppelin is also my favorite group of all time and all four members were exceptional. It is hard to actually say one was better than another for those of us that appreciated their music.

 

Man the 60's and 70's was one of those rare transition periods in music where mass artists were breaking new ground everywhere and it is hard to say "who is greatest of all time" IMO when there were so many bands out there doing mind blowing work in the 60's and 70's transitioning from the classical rhythm and blues and mixing it with the newest electronics that were coming out at the time allowing pretty much any groundbreaking band to create new sounds.

Lyrically, 'Zep has em all beat. But I can think of slightly more creative bands on the music end. The jam bands of the 60's and 70's had absolutely amazing creative talents musically, though none that I know could match Plant & Page's lyrical creativity.

I've always been a big fan of the Grateful Dead 68 to about 76-77. They broke massive new ground in the use of electronics and sound. They were the ones who invented the Marshall Stack and then there was that wild experiment with "The Wall of Sound" in '74 that to this day is legendary for having perfectly clear audio out to 2 football fields without delay towers and "acceptable" audio out to 1/2 a mile! People would gather in hundreds outside thier outdoor venues on the street and sit around and trip out because the music was that clear.

 

This thread is not intended to address the great creativity or talent of the other bands in the '60's and early '70's. For example the Yardbirds, with Clapton, then Beck, and eventually Page, was the first heavy metal group IMO. Cream was unquestionably the first "super group" that combined the talent of three increadible musicians to form a group. Of course there is Hendrix who, as an individual musician, stands above all others.

As a group though Led Zeppelin surpassed them all IMO and no group since has gained the stature of Led Zeppelin.

 

In 1978 Led Zeppelin was voted as being the best recording and touring group in the United States even though they did not release an album or tour the United States that year.

 

I went with Page, but Led Zepplin members and the group as a whole becomes much less impressive when you consider all the lyrics and guitar lines they stole from other artists.

 

That's not called "stealing" but instead it's called "covering" and yes, Led Zeppelin did cover many blues artist songs. Of course Jimmy Page and the group added their own distinctive arrangements that the original artists could never have conceived of.

 

Actually, it's called stealing when you rip off lyrics or guitar solos, sell them as your own and not pay a dime in royalties to the creator of said music until you are sued. plagiarism does not = covering.

 

I don't think I could ever choose between them - all of them were so influential on the 'sum of the parts' in various ways. However, if I were to be asked which is the most 'underrated' member of Led Zeppelin, I would be voting for JPJ without hesitation! It is quite natural for people to 'rave' about the singer and guitarist in any band, and in this case the drummer is quite justifiably noted for his contribution. However, if you listen to Them Crooked Vultures, quite how important JPJ was to the overall direction, sound and style of Zeppelin becomes, I think, quite evident:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6-MNEDcscY"]TCV - Mind Eraser, No Chaser[/ame]

The interesting thing about that album is that at first listen it sounds mostly like a Queens of The Stone Age thing (because of Josh Homme), but after a few listens it grows and changes (like pretty much no other album I've ever heard!) into something that is quite obviously pretty much a kind of Led Zeppelin album with a thin veneer of QOTSA over the top.

 

In order.
Plant
Bonham
Jones
Page


I want to put Bonham first, but Plants vocals are just the band. You can replace any other component and it won't be the same, but there is no comparison to swapping the vocals.

Jones was brilliant, and he and Bonham together were just unstoppable. Totally in each others heads.

I always felt Page was overrated and sloppy. He had a great head for music, but I always felt his talent was sub par. Sorry.

 

All four of the members of the band were really unique in their own way, each members contribution collectively making the band what it was and that was of course great music.

With the passing of John Bonham, the surviving members of the band broke up and the world lost another great rock and roll band. Most, if not all of their songs written and performed are true classics in the sense. I"d have to say that the "Rain Song" is probably one of my all-time favorites tho' Gallows Pole ranks up there as well.

 

Recently, inspired by the tee shirt "I may be old but I got to see all of the cool bands" I put together a cd collection of one song each from all of the bands I've seen. Trying to select one Led Zeppelin song had to be the hardest choice I was forced to make for the cd collection. Ultimately I selected Ramble On but there were so many others I could have selected.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3HemKGDavw"]Ramble On - Led Zeppelin - YouTube[/ame]

 

Jimmy Page's guitar playing was always more about 'feel' than 'technique', and that is what I'd expect from any guitar player with a style firmly rooted in blues. In that context, being a great guitarist is not about how fast you can play, but about how slow you can play - it's all about the feel and passion, not about getting every single note perfect (something sadly that all too many modern guitarists fail to understand!), and also about constantly stretching and striving to do new and interesting things (often through improvisation) rather than just using pure composition techniques to make 'worthy' music. There have been few guitarists who could produce the kind of emotion in their playing of Jimmy Page.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkjv9SscotY"]Since I've Been Loving You[/ame]

Robert Plant always seemed to operate along similar principles - using the voice for emotion rather than perfection. In particular his diction is often incrdibly 'sloppy', and the words are often nowhere near as clear and understandable as they could be. That isn't the point, though! He's not aiming at operatic perfection, but at portraying the emotion of the piece with his voice. The principle holds true for John Bonham, of course - his drumming was all about creating and enhancing the 'feel' of the music - and with the bass playing of John Paul Jones.

In the process of portaying emotion, every member of the band could be a little approximate from time to time in one way or another! That's what made the music what it was instead of dull and lifeless perfection and the showing off of technical virtuosity. If the latter kind of thing is what denotes 'merit' musically, then Led Zeppelin were far, far 'worse' than people like this:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i7qZxICwgQ"]Dragonforce - Fuy of the Storm[/ame]

Needless to say, they aren't 'better' than Led Zeppelin, despite their obvious technical brilliance as musicians and their excellent uderstanding of music and compositional techniques. They sound OK at first listen, but believe me, all of their songs are pretty much the same - all perfect examples of what they are, but all pretty much one dimensional, and perfectly dull! Their problem? Over-reliance on perfection and widdly-widdly technical virtuoso performance, combined with an almost complete lack of emotion and 'feel'. It's almost like they've developed the perfect theoretical mathematical formula for composition by numbers, but in the process forgotten that music isn't just about maths, it's about emotion! Their live performances are pretty much note for note renditions of their recordings (apart from the fact that they have often been too drunk to get it right!) - no variation, no improvisation, and no imagination - they are pretty dull events, and much less enjoyable than sitting on a comfy chair at home with a CD on (something which live music should never, ever be!).

Of course, Led Zeppelin certainly weren't collectively strangers to understanding of musical technique and composition either, but they knew how to apply it in practise and performance to create the emotion and feel that they wanted, rather than trying to create the purity of perfection that they could attempt to slavishly reproduce on stage.

Give me a bit of slightly 'sloppy' playing anyday!

 

They did seem to 'borrow' a few things, certainly (the main intro theme to Stairway to Heaven, for example, is pretty much a slowed down arpeggio version of the intro to 'Michelle' by The Beatles), but most musicians do that (and always have done through the ages), and it can certainly be something done unconciously, and without ever realising that you've done it. It doesn't diminish the person who has inadvertantly (or even deliberately) taken a musical (or lyrical) element from somewhere else and manipulated and expanded it into something different of their own. It's a normal part of the creative process - taking inspiration from something and making it into something different of your own. It's not the same thing as 'copying' or 'stealing' a song.

Having said all that, there is certainly no excuse for this:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3DJhwAhrjY"]In The Still Of The Black Dog - David Coverversion[/ame]

 

If a person wants perfectly articulated guitar playing listen to Al DiMeola - Race With Devil On Spanish Highway.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zy4K7lFFZII"]Al DiMeola - Race With Devil On Spanish Highway - YouTube[/ame]

If a person wants to hear perfectly articulated blues guitar listen to Led Zeppelin - Since I've Been Loving You.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkjv9SscotY"]Since I've Been Loving You - Led Zeppelin - YouTube[/ame]

It was rumored that Eric Clapton, perhaps the most noted blues-rock guitar player, spent a year in a room after leaving the Yardbirds just to learn how to play the right note at the right time. Blues guitar is certainly about raw emotion as opposed to perfection.

 

i liked john paul jones he was better than the others imo

 

From what I understand, the guitar work in Stairway To Heaven was ripped off from a band called Spirit and their song "Taurus". Spirit toured with Zepplin in 1969, and was put on Zepplins album two years later.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd8AVbwB_6E"]Taurus- Spirit - YouTube[/ame]


There are countless examples of Zep ripping off other artists. Their first big single, Whole Lotta Love, was basically taken word for word from Willie Dixons song "You Need Love" - and they were sued accordingly. Dazed And Confused, which was originally credited to Mr Page himself, was stolen from Jake Holmes. Like I said, the list goes on and on.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiiY4ciKFQA&feature=related"]Led Zeppelin Examples of Plagiarism - YouTube[/ame]

I can only chuckle when you say "taking inspiration", especially when they are stealing lyrics word for word.

 

"Stairway to Heaven don't make it for me, baby!" - Keith Richards (guitarist extraordinaire)