Arctic sea ice loss due to global warming II

I guess the old saying that if can't dazzel them with brilliance baffle them with b#$ll&*#t hold true.

If the earth were not getting warmer the artic sea ice would not be melting.

If the earth were not getting warmer antartic ice would not be melting.

If the earth were not getting warmer glacier ice would not be receding all over the world.

If the earth were not getting warmer global temps would not be rising (on average).

Of course the temps here in the U.S.A will become cooler for a season....it is called winter. And artic ice will grow for a few months...also because of winter.

Arguments about how many gallons of fuel per barrell of oil is beside the point.

 

Some perspective is in order...Total mass extent of ice is about 200 million gigatons. Estimates of ice-loss are right around 100 gitatons a year. At that rate you're looking at about 2 million years before all the ice melts.

The poster I was replying to brought up the subject of how many barrels of oil we 'burn.' As with you, I was just giving her some perspective.

 

The facts are the scientists have been caught in lies and deceptions

 

You seem to be avoiding the fact that you have just been shown to be 100% wrong, and incapable of understanding the simple fact that there is no such thing as "scientific proof". No one is getting off anything "thinking they have enough data to 'prove' anything regarding global climate"

Science involves proposing hypotheses to develop theories and supporting these with evidence.

We are discussing a theory that has been around for over 100 years and is supported by absolute mountains of empirical evidence. And so far, no human has set up a climate experiment that has disproven that the increase in concentration of atmospheric CO2 is impacting upon climate.

Do you understand this?

 

Which lies and deceptions are these?

Could you show us some evidence please? (real evidence if you wouldn't mind - not the opinion of some nutjobs blog please).

You see - I am a sceptic. I would like to see some evidence to support this statement you just made.

 

I have showed them many times. you keep ignoring them.

Using september temps to show hottest october and the Himalaya scam is just 2 of the best known

 

100% wrong about what?

You left out an important step, experimenting to validate your hypothesis.

One doesn't experiment to disprove. Experiments validate a hypothesis by being successful. So far AGW experiments have not been performed.

The real question is...do YOU understand?

 

Except all the Antarctic ice does not have to melt to cause problems. And for the fifth time, melting ice is not going to be the only cause of the sea level rise; thermal expansion of the oceans will also be a factor. Again basic physics; something the deniers need to brush up on.

 

So now you wish to minimize Antarctic ice melt when you see the real facts don't add up to your claims. In order to escape, you now conjure up some kind of dangerous thermal expansion of the ocean as yet another boogy. Is that your own idea or did you get it from the cabal of AGW fools? Now that you have created the boogy man, you can play with the data to prove your already determined outcome, flood the internet with graphs and so-called 'peer reviewed' papers in order to 'prove' your pre-determined outcome.

 

"Conjure up"? Your ignorance of physics is showing.

 

I wonder if he's figured out why you should always open a can of beans *before* you heat it up.

 

Google....Global warming scam, global warming lies, global warming myths, or even global warming deceptions if you wish...you'll find your answer.

 

You actually believe that everything you can google up is true? LOLOLOLOLOL.

Has no one ever explained to you that the fossil fuel industry has been running a massive propaganda campaign for the last few decades to confuse the public about the reality and dangers of anthropogenic global warming? You can easily google up a lot of denier cult blogs and front groups and propaganda outlets with your search terms but you're not going to find any actual science there.

Try googling 'climate change denier myths' and you'll find links to actual scientific facts that debunk the propaganda you've swallowed.

 

You believe all the propaganda of the IPCC and DR Hansen

 

Here's some of the latest finding on the deterioration of the Arctic ice cap from one of the world's foremost Arctic researchers, Dr. Stefan Rahmstorf , Professor of Physics of the Oceans at Potsdam University and Department Head at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research. He warns of the inevitable consequences to the Arctic and to sea levels if mankind does not take swift action to drastically reduce carbon emissions.

The Vanishing Arctic
Stefan Rahmstorf
2011-10-17
(excerpts)

BERLIN – Largely unnoticed, a silent drama has been unfolding over the past weeks in the Arctic. The long-term consequences will far outstrip those of the international debt crisis or the demise of the Libyan dictatorship, the news stories now commanding media attention. The drama – more accurately, a tragedy – playing out in the North is the rapid disappearance of the polar ice cap, the Arctic Ocean’s defining feature. In September, the sea-ice cover on the Arctic Ocean melted all the way back to the record-low level recorded in September 2007. At 4.4 million square kilometers, it was the smallest ice cover since satellite observations began 40 years ago, with 40% less ice than in the 1970’s and 1980’s. Back in 2007, the record low stunned climate scientists, who considered it an outlier in an otherwise much slower decline in sea-ice cover. We blamed unusual wind conditions in the Arctic that year. But satellite data since then have proven us wrong. This year, we reached the same low level without exceptional wind conditions. It is now clear that we are not just seeing a steady decline of sea-ice cover, but a rapidly accelerating decline.

If this continues, we will probably see an ice-free North Pole within the next 10-20 years. Yes, that sounds shocking. But there is good reason to fear that the rate of decline will indeed continue to rise, and that satellite images of a blue polar ocean will grace the covers of news magazines sooner rather than later. The reason is that the ice is also getting thinner. This is harder to measure than the area of ice cover, which is easily viewed by satellites. But various data, including measurements from ships and aircraft, confirm that the ice has thinned by roughly half since the 1980’s. This also makes physical sense, given the rapid warming in the Arctic. If the ice cover simultaneously shrinks and gets thinner, then the shrinkage in area is first steady but then accelerates towards the end, when the remaining ice becomes ever thinner and more vulnerable to melting. This is what I fear is happening now. Yearly estimates show that 2011 set an all-time low for overall ice volume – which is computed from area and thickness – in the Arctic Ocean. Ice volume is already down to about one-third of what it was in the 1980’s. If the downward trend in ice volume of the past 20 years merely continues at a constant pace, practically no ice will be left in 10-15 years.

This loss of ice will not only turn the Arctic ecosystem upside down, affecting many animals that are adapted to a life with sea ice. It will affect all of us. If the Arctic ice disappears in the summer months, we will lose a giant mirror that reflects solar heat back into space and helps keep the planet cool. The ice loss will amplify global warming and upset weather patterns. But the ice loss will amplify warming especially in the Arctic – indeed, this is already happening. Moreover, disproportionate Arctic warming is already affecting one of the most important components of the global climate system: the Greenland Ice Sheet. If this giant structure melts, sea levels worldwide would rise by about seven meters. And this melting, it appears, has already begun. As NASA data revealed earlier this year, the Greenland Ice Sheet is losing mass at an accelerating pace. As tide gauges from around the world show, sea levels are indeed rising. The warmer it gets, the faster the sea rises. While sea level was nearly constant for centuries after the Middle Ages, it rose at an average rate of almost two centimeters per decade during the twentieth century. Over the past two decades, the rate has exceeded three centimeters per decade. While future sea level is hard to predict, most experts would agree that unabated global warming could lead in the coming centuries to a rise measured in meters, threatening the very existence of many coastal cities and entire island nations. Already at the end of this century, sea level could well be one meter higher than it is now, unless we act rapidly and decisively to curb our greenhouse-gas emissions.

Copyright: Project Syndicate, 2011.

(In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this material is distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for research and educational purposes.)

 

WTF are you talking about? You go to google to find source's...What's with the LOLOLOLOLOL? WTF is so funny? You never use google to find source's? You are being ridiculous.

I say it's a myth, you say it's not...who cares. As if you haven't swallowed propaganda...too funny.

 

I use google to find, among other things, reputable, verifiable sources of factual scientific information about global warming and its associated climate changes, not just any old "source", regardless of what kind it is or the reputability of the source or who's promoting, sponsoring or astro-turfing it. I guess to you, a "source" is a "source" and "who cares". Google 'flat earth' and click on the links to the Flat Earth Society. How do you like them "sources", buddy? 'Cause they are about on a par, in terms of reliability and accuracy, with the lame denier cult blogs you were trying to refer people to.

Yeah, you say AGW is a myth but the only things you can come up with to back up that ridiculous assertion are a bunch of half-witted denier cult blogs and Exxon funded propaganda outlets. Whereas I know that there are mountains of scientific evidence and data and the testimony of the world's scientific community pointing to the reality of anthropogenic global warming/climate changes and I can show it to you. The increasing loss of the Arctic sea ice (topic of this thread) is just one example of undeniable evidence of abrupt warming.

Who cares??? Wow, how naive and ingenuous can you get? You obviously care enough to spend the time to debate the issue here. LOL. Most of the intelligent people of the world who are aware of the problem care a great deal about it because they understand what is at stake. Anyone with any concern for their children and grandchildren and future generations cares enormously about it. It is only the oil and coal magnates, corporate officers and billionaires, who care more about their short term profits than the fact that their sources of profit are ruining the Earth's environment and ecosystems and dooming our descendants to hardship and disaster, who don't care. And, of course, the poor deluded dupes on the rightwing who've been deceived into imagining that this is a political issue instead of a scientific issue and who've fallen for fossil fuel industry propaganda campaign and now deny the reality of our situation, they don't care either, I suppose you could say, but that is really just because they're so bamboozled and confused.

The changes in the world around us are becoming ever more apparent to people all around the world and more and more people are facing up to the painful and scary reality of what mankind has done to the delicate balance of world climate systems, so this kind of ad hoc cult of denial that the fossil fuel industry PR guys ginned up is basically doomed to slide kicking and screaming into oblivion.

Have a nice ride.

 

Noes noes noes!! You dod dat awl rong!! Dere noes such fing as fisics it all a scam by Al Gore!!

 

I think a quoting of my signature is appropriate here

The internet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhoea -- massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind- boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it.

"There's a statistical theory that if you gave a million monkeys typewriters and set them to work, they'd eventually come up with the complete works of Shakespeare. Thanks to the Internet, we now know this isn't true."


The difference between an educated person and one who simply can read and write is that educated people by and large know how to tell the difference between the elephants and the output so to speak

 

You mean like the propaganda from the no integrity UN, I mean IPCC

 

It is unfortunate that you are so clueless and confused. You have made it obvious though that it does no good to point out the truth to you, no matter how much corroborating evidence is presented, because your ideological prejudices prevent you from seeing it and your apparent total ignorance of science keeps you from understanding it.

 

I know the truth. The IPCC lies and has an agenda. That is not science and that is not truth.

 

Like most warmists, you throw out scientific terms with absolutely no qualifiers and no real reliable hard data then claim global disaster. You guys remind me of the religious nuts standing on a street corner with a sign that reads 'the end is near' while holding a 'donation' cup.

 

So what I have really learned from the "Global Warming Community" is that....well basically....everyone that does not agree is most likely one of these....

A. Moron
B. An Idiot
C. A Fool
D. A Narrow Minded (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)
E. Clueless
F. Confused
G. Naive
H. A Liar
I. A Flat Earther
J. Detached from Reality
K. Retarted

And the number one thing I am now that I don't believe in Global Warming....

UNEDUCATED. I just love that one.

So from now on I will just nod in approval with evey far out far fetched thing they say...otherwise they may start convincing me (with all the name calling) that I may really be not just one or two....but all of those things.

So here it is....I've turned over a new leaf.

"No Global warming is not a hoax created on emotion so that the hippie tree huggers will get on board, and the people at the top can one day sell the worthless piece of crap carbon credits and become some of the richest people in the world... ok, got it." I am officially a believer in the greatest scam ever to spread like a disease all over the world.