Polygamy in the 'new' Libya causing disquiet among women,

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by DutchClogCyborg, Oct 30, 2011.

  1. DutchClogCyborg

    DutchClogCyborg New Member

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    . As the Quran clearly allows one man to marry up to four wives simultaneously (Quran 4:3), the 'new' Libya has strongly hinted that polygamy will be made legal again, much to the consternation of Libya's supporters abroad and women everywhere.

    Such consternation must be more rampant Islamophobia, right? Perhaps 'liberated' Libya is just trying to keep up with the Joneses, as it were, since much of neighboring Europe has already adapted to polygamous Muslim marriages.

    Hinting at an End to a Curb on Polygamy, Interim Libyan Leader Stirs Anger," by Adam Nossiter, The New York Times, 29 October 2011:
    "A sizable step backwards"? Is Islam not grand, noble, pure, etc. etc.? Is even the New York Times becoming Islamophobic?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/30/w...olygamy-stirs-anger.html?_r=3&ref=global-home
     
  2. Liebe

    Liebe Banned

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    This development sucks.

    Polygamy should be resisted wherever it manifests.
     
  3. DonGlock26

    DonGlock26 New Member Past Donor

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    No one should be surprised by this. Islamists want this to be the law of the entire human race.
     
  4. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    perhaps they are reading the teachings of warren jeffs?

    maybe they are becoming more americanized after all.
     
  5. mikezila

    mikezila New Member

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    there is a time and place for it such as when there is a sizable lack of marriageable males. the problem comes when there's no shortage of males. every man that has two wives leaves one with none.

    i see no problem with it as long as all parties agree. if a man wants another mother-in-law, he deserves whatever he gets.:bump:
     
  6. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    in a place like gaza, i could see polygamy; the males are murdered by the bigots and the women and children are often left destitute.

    I had a mormon bishop tell me that is what brought polygamy into the mormon group as in the 1800's the males were often murdered by the christian wingnuts and the families were left out into the cold.

    So households that could absorb them, would and often a bond occurred between the second women in the house and the head of household (male) that led to premescuity and the leaders suggested that to put the issue on the table within the house, enabled the first wife to approve or disapprove

    ie... I was told, it was the first wife's choice whether the second was allowed to marry her husband.

    didnt say it was right or wrong, i am giving you a scope in the context i was told by a mormom personally
     
  7. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Governments should not be involved at all in the voluntary personal relationships between adults but it should prohibit coercive practices such as arranged marriages, period.

    It isn't that "polygamy" is wrong but instead that women are generally forced into these types of marriages.
     
  8. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    That really wasn't the objective.. In Mohammed's day infant girls all over the Middle East were exposed and left to die.

    Mohammed forbid the exposure of girl babies.. The idea of polygamy was not sexual promiscuity in nature.. It was so that ever maiden aunt, unmarried, sister, widow etc would have the protection of a family, clan and tribe.

    Women have the right to reject any suitor..
     
  9. Abu Sina

    Abu Sina New Member

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    I agree

    Very few muslims marry more than one because further down in the Quran chapter it says clearly.
    4.129
    "And you have it not in your power to do justice between wives, even though you may wish it".

    I cannot imagine any woman marrying a Saudi prince as his 30th+ wife.
    Where is her dignity? is she so cheap to be bought then discarded as the others because of his money!

    Quran
    YOU HAVE NOT IT IN YOUR POWER

    seems pretty clear to me
     
  10. Abu Sina

    Abu Sina New Member

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    :mrgreen: .
     
  11. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Religions of all types tend to be oppressive of women generally treating them as second-class persons. This is true with Christianity where women are taught to be subservient to their husbands as well as in Islamic teachings.

    When I see Islamic countries not only allowing women to make choices related to their partnerships with men including the Right to Leave at anytime then it might get my attention. When gays and lesbians are treated equally with other couples in nations, including the United States, I will take notice. Until then I will condemn each and every nation that denies equality to any adult related to personal partnerships they choose to form or dissolve,
     
  12. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    Muslim women have always had the right to divorce.

    There are many thriving gay communities in Saudi Arabia.. Its not an issue unless you carry on in public or molest children.
     
  13. Abu Sina

    Abu Sina New Member

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    BUT the interesting thing is that the Gulf countries who mainly practice polygamy have more males than female births
    so they cannot use that excuse

    Bahrain 1.24 males to every female
    Kuwait 1.54
    Oman 1.22
    Qatar 2.00!!!!
    Saudi 1.18
    UAE 2.19 !!!!

    USA is 0.97 in comparison

    World average is 1.01
     
  14. Abu Sina

    Abu Sina New Member

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    If a Qatari man for instance married 4 wives and there are twice as many men as women. Can you imagine the outcome!:omg:
     
  15. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    I've seen some of the rationalizations related to the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia. One of my favorites:

    http://www.globaleye.org.uk/secondary_spring03/eyeon/one.html

    Or better still the reflections of another woman that went to Saudi Arabia to work:

    http://www.globaleye.org.uk/secondary_spring03/eyeon/three.html

    And regardless of lip service to homosexuality in Saudi Arabia it is a agianst the law and punishable by death.
     
  16. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    The tradition in Arabia is against public displays whether heterosexual or homosexual. It helps to understand context.

    Yes, foreign nationals want to work in Arabia because they supported whole extended families in India or Bangladesh, etc on the money they earn.. Its been that way since I was a child.

    My family had a houseboy and ironing boy.. Both were really good men and dear to us.. If they were not, my mother would NEVER have permitted them in the house.. Both were trained by the British.

    You seem to rail against the differences in culture, heritage and tradition.. but there is no Islamic reason for Saudi women NOT to drive..

    When I first went to Arabia there were NO roads.. We traveled in convoys with sand tires, extra gas and huge amounts of water.. There were few cars except those that belonged to ARAMCO.

    As cars and trucks entered the picture, bedouin women often drove trucks, but there were no facilities or even traffic cops for unaccompanied females in developing urban areas.

    I think Saudi women will be driving soon. Prince Salman is building 100 Highway plazas that will have facilities.. and .. young Saudis support their wives in being able to drive.. to shop, take the kids to school, go to work and all the things that American and European women take for granted.

    It helps to remember how far Saudi Arabia has come since 1940..

    They had NO work ethic, no concept of a work week.. No experience of getting paid on Thursdays.. no concept of time.. In the early years.. Saudis would get paid a bag of silver riyals and just wander off.. or they would just leave the job at ten o'clock in the morning to tend some personal business. There was no waking and sleeping schedules.

    Eye disease, malnutrition, malaria, smallpox and polio were the norm. Most babies died before their first birthday.

    When you realize the WILL and courage it has taken to consistently move forward out of the time of Christ in less than 60 years.. you might not be so judgmental.
     
  17. Liebe

    Liebe Banned

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    This has no truth today. As Abu has shown there is no basis on population stats. In fact men produced many children with many women and used them as a source of cheap labour resulting in many very impoverished women.

    Indeed these kinds of marriages are characterised by child marriages to much older men, child abuse and higher levels of STDs. I do not beleive that it is volunatry in the sense that we understand free choice to be.
    No they do not. They are typically child brides - and I am not only referring to muslim polygamy. Add to that brides's price and you have plenty of eligible men with no access to women.

     
  18. Serfin' USA

    Serfin' USA Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any evidence of that?
     
  19. DutchClogCyborg

    DutchClogCyborg New Member

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    He does not because homosexuality is punishable by death in the Islamic Apartheid kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
     
  20. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    I will get back to the point that I support the inalienable Rights of the Individual so when I address polygamy or any other personal partnership my only issue is that it must be between consenting adults. Generally speaking I haven't found that to be the case when it comes to religious institutions that endorse polygamy because those religious institutions typically address a woman as being a second-class person subservient to the husband. I know of no exceptions to this general "rule" of religion.

    I have no problem with polygamy but I do have a problem with it when it is not based upon absolute equality and where those involved are not consenting adults. The government should not intervene in any manner between the voluntary relationships between consenting adults. The government should only be concerned with protecting the Rights of those individuals in any relationships they choose to be a part of. I oppose laws that prohibit polygamy.

    This subservient relationship denies equality to the woman and sadly today we find gender discrimination in all countries to a greater of lessor degree. We can cite that Iceland comes in 1st but even there women only rate as equal to about 85% of a male in equality. The United States, which is based upon the Rights of the Individual, ranks 19th where a woman is rated as equal to less that 75% of a male. Saudi Arabia comes in a dismal 129th with a woman being rated as equal to about 57% of a male and all of the Islamic countries are near the bottom of the list when it comes to equality for women.

    http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GenderGap_Report_2010.pdf

    So people can say what they will but until women reach a status equal to men the discrimination continues and it is inexcusable from my perspective.
     
  21. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    Child brides? All of Mohammed's wives with the exception of Aisha were widows.

    Do you follow the Arab newspapers.. There has been public outrage over these rare child marriages.

    In Islam that which is not expressly forbidden is permitted, but the public is demanding a minimum age for females to marry ...
     

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