Employees' Rights & its Effects on Business

Discussion in 'Labor & Employment' started by moncrirw, Oct 31, 2011.

  1. moncrirw

    moncrirw Newly Registered

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    There seems to always be a debate over employees’ rights, and how much is too much or little. I believe that the best way to delegate employees’ rights is to make sure employees can have as many rights as the Constitution provides without harming the financial condition of the company.

    With this topic comes the constant struggle of power between the employees and employers. Appeasing an employee’s right sometimes can be detrimental to the company’s financial well-being. On the other hand though, employees can take advantage of their employees and strip their rights or discriminate against them. Employers have the upper hand in this battle with the employment-at-will doctrine. This doctrine says that an employee is at the will of the employer and can be fired for any reason, and that the employer does not need to state his or her reasons for releasing someone. I do believe that this policy is very acceptable because the employer deserves this power. Employees are by nature subject to the employer and company and have been granted an opportunity to get paid. If they get out of line and begin to hurt the company financially because of their actions, then there is no reason why they should have the same job. There are of course exceptions to this rule for discrimination in terms of sex, race, and religion. These rules are enforced by a government agency, the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). I agree that it is unethical and unfair for an employer to discriminate against for any of the reasons listed above because these factors are hard to control and/or should not be controlled because of their importance to the individual. However, if the employee misses a substantial amount of time and no longer contributes to the business than I think that he or she may be fired or relocated.

    Another claim I am making, is that employee’s should be granted the rights stated in the 1st Amendment and other basic human rights as long as it does not harm the company. An example of an employee’s first amendment rights getting in the way of a company is if an employee decides to rant about his company on Facebook or other social networking sites. This should not be allowed by the employer because it could cause considerable financial harm to the company. In 2008, thirteen employees were fired by the airline company, Virgin Atlantic, for calling their passengers” chavs” on Facebook. It was the right move on behalf of Virgin Atlantic to fire the employees. Those who argue that this is a violation of their freedom of speech have not properly considered the employer/employee relationship. The employees gave up various rights when they accepted the job in order for the company to function. In this situation the employees were not simply speaking as a citizen, but as an employee instead. Their actions may have caused considerable harm to the reputation of Virgin Atlantic, and since they are harming their company then there is no valid reason for why they should keep their jobs? By accepting employment to work for Virgin Atlantic there are implied duties to give up some rights and make sure they get the job done without causing harm to the company.

    Employees’ rights should be kept intact to protect the employees, but can be limited by the company if the employees' rights get in the way of the company’s financial success.
     
  2. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    A. It's the employee and the federal government versus business.
    B. What First Amendment right is involved in employment. Certainly not the part that says, "Congress shall make no laws abridging the freedom of speech."
    C. Should we hold unions accountable for assault, sabotage, vandalism, murder, intimidation, theft, and the myriad of other crimes they commit?
     
  3. Caeia Iulia Regilia

    Caeia Iulia Regilia New Member

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    I think the rights culture gets in the way. Everyone is so concerned about their rights that they forget that in business, every "right" given to the worker is another link in the chain holding back the company if it needs to change quickly. Unions are killing a lot of businesses. I expect that grocery stores will be dead in 15 years -- because the unions locked in absurd "rights" when times are good and now that other more agile businesses are getting into food sales (ie walmart and target) the high wages and benefits are killing them. But because of union contracts those companies will be unable to make the changes necessary to compete. Rights culture. I feel the same way about employer health coverage -- sooner or later the businesses providing them will lose out to those who don't. Unfortunately, those companies are not american so we'll hear the usual (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) and moan that OUR JOBS IS GOING TO CHINA. But we're doing it.
     
  4. Wildjoker5

    Wildjoker5 Well-Known Member

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    Employees have all the rights they need, they can simply walk away from any jobs they feel is not treating them properly. Sooner or later after working for business after business, that employee will realize that the employer is NOT the problem, it is themselves that are the problem. You as the employee set your own worth by your experience, work ethic, and education level. If you are missing something, it is not the employer to give you what you are missing, it is up to you to achieve it.
     
  5. stonehorse

    stonehorse New Member

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    Originally Posted by moncrirw
    "Employees’ rights should be kept intact to protect the employees, but can be limited by the company if the employees' rights get in the way of the company’s financial success."

    What you are saying is that employees have no rights.

    So if making payroll gets in the way of a company's financial success the company can limit the employees' right to a paycheck?

    That kind of thinking could create an unlivable world.
    A Tea bag kind of world.
     
  6. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    I have always thought that putting the burden on employers is not the ideal solution. I believe all the people in society do have economic rights, especially to land and natural resources. But until the government starts taxing the owners to give to the people, the concept of workers rights is far better than nothing.
     
  7. TheBasicsAbout

    TheBasicsAbout New Member

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    Let me play a sort of devils advocate here on the side of PRO BUSINESS.
    here is where a big problem has been attached to the back side of the business owners britches​
    Employee's have been granted through legislation (in many places) freedoms which they should NOT have been given.

    An employer has to accept those who he may not associate with in his private life to be part of the business he has invested his life in.

    As an advocate of REAL freedom - I encourage people to consider for the rights and freedom of all verse the rights and freedom of some
    that you can not legislate the rights for some against the rights of others and call it FREEDOM.

    If a law is made to force you to accept another person - where is that going to leave your rights?

    The rights for them is JUST US ... and it removes the JUSTICE for all.
     
  8. stonehorse

    stonehorse New Member

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    Where is there such a law?
    In my state there is no law that makes an employer hire anyone.
    And an employer may fire an employee at any time without stating a reason.
     
  9. TheBasicsAbout

    TheBasicsAbout New Member

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    I knew a lady who had a drivers training school who got terrorized because she didn't hire blacks.

    it didn't stop the nonsense when she told them she was her only employee ... ​
     
  10. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    It's a federal law protecting approved minorities. I was sued in federal court for not hiring a woman. I had a black man threaten to sue me if I didn't hire him. I don't know where you've been hiding. A friend of mine successfully sued a trucking firm for not giving her a job because she was too small. She got a cash settlement and a job. Six months later she was on permanent disability for injuries sustained from, ta-da, being too small.

    Pedophiles aren't a protected minority...yet. I suspect they will be if the liberals get their way.
     
  11. stonehorse

    stonehorse New Member

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    Excuse me if I don't buy your anecdotal evidence.

    Everyone knows someone who knows someone who .........

    I just know that in my state as long as you do not discriminate because of race, etc. you don't have to employ anyone. If you advertise a job as white only you might have a problem.
     
  12. TheBasicsAbout

    TheBasicsAbout New Member

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    REALLY? Perhaps it is STILL that warm and fuzzy in Mt. Shasta or where I have spent a lot of time in Yreka and Hornbrook (where I do not remember EVER seeing any black's)
    How many whites do you think California Coalition of Hispanic Organizations employ's?

    Are you even aware of HOW MANY government sanctioned forms of racism there are?

    HERE ARE SOME EXAMPLES:
    1. New Easy-to-Use Black Business Directory Offers Free Listings (SOURCE - tell me if you think they hire whites at a website called bmoreblack.com)
    2. The Black Business Directory
      (Support Black Businesses) (SOURCE)
    3. Blacktalk Radio Network(SOURCE)
    4. Black Shopping Channel(SOURCE)
    5. not to mention the NEGRO COLLEGE FUND

    I challenge you to show me the WHITE equivalent to these

    PERSONALLY SPEAKING: This stuff makes me more racist and why shouldn't it?

    See? The government is very effective at DIVIDE AND CONQUERING American's.​
    ... just look at how you have initiated ANOTHER animosity toward lefties BECAUSE YOUR SIDE IS STEREOTYPICALLY BLIND!
     
  13. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Stonehourse: Your ignorance of the law is not exactly a convincing argument.

    Stonehore: 'That kind of thinking could create an unlivable world."

    Sorry, your kind of thinking has already done it.
     
  14. stonehorse

    stonehorse New Member

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    How did this morph from employee rights to racism?
     
  15. stonehorse

    stonehorse New Member

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    Say what you want. That doesn't change the law that allows an employer in California to fire an employee at any time without stating a reason other than a reduction in the work force.

    I've hired and fired enough to know this.

    Now if you tell an employee that you are going to fire him because he's too old, wrong sex, or too dark you are asking for problems.

    I was never forced to hire someone I didn't think was qualified. And I had a "black list" of men I would turn away.

    But they were on the list because they were not qualified to do the job, not for "social reasons". Is that the difference between my experience and yours?
     
  16. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Using your analogy, the company could opine that stocking the bathroom with toilet paper impinges on the company's financial success over time and as such force the employees to bring their own toilet paper with them.
     
  17. TheBasicsAbout

    TheBasicsAbout New Member

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    How? Simple one of the so called EMPLOYEE RIGHTS of a minority is based on race ...

    there was a cop in another suburb who could not right a ticket correctly and was let go until he played the race card.

    When I was younger I got denied a job because I was not a minority​

    my 5 years of experience verse the black guys almost 3 years had no value as to who got hired.
     
  18. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

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    ..and I can point to any number valid reasons why things like this occur.

    For instance, Wendy's has a company policy that the employee makeup of it's stores should reflect the majority of it's customer base.

    Lets say the manager deems that 1 in 10 customers to his store is black, and the rest white. He should, according to company guidelines make 1 in 10 of his employees black, or some similar ratio.

    But the same applies in reverse.

    If 1 in 10 of his customers is white and the rest black, then the manager of the individual store is requested that same proportion apply as well, within reason. These are guidelines of course, there is nothing stopping the manager from hiring all hispanics and telling both races to go to hell(which I've seen in several stores where not a single person speaks english but the manager speaks fluent spanish and has a predeliction to hiring hispanics).

    Yes, there is and can be racial bias in the workplace especially in the lower paying jobs out there, but its tolerable.
     
  19. stonehorse

    stonehorse New Member

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    This may be true.

    But this is the decision of the company. The government is not forcing it.

    I was once also denied a job because I didn't fit the racial profile of those they wanted to hire. But they were not blatant about it and I couldn't prove it. Eventually I thought the job wasn't worth having.
     
  20. TheBasicsAbout

    TheBasicsAbout New Member

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    that is the service industry ... what I was mentioning was a job as a trim painter
     
  21. Caeia Iulia Regilia

    Caeia Iulia Regilia New Member

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    It would be a better world. Business can't run if you constantly have to appologize for making decisions that save the company money. If I have to worry that my cost cutting goes against something the "rights culture" has dictated, then I'm going to lose my business to someone not so encumbered. That's the problem. Via unions, we've accepted a ton of "rights" that cost too much. We have the "right" to a lunch hour, and lose to forgein competition that has their employees eat at their desks. We have a newly minted "right" to health care, so we'll lose more jobs to those who don't give their employees health care.

    But a farther problem is that once all of the benefits that we've demanded finally collapse the last American business, the only people really hurt won't be the fatcats who insisted that all of these "rights" were a good idea, it will be the poor, who now have no jobs, no chance for a job, and since the welfare state will have long since collapsed, they'll have to live as literal slaves. They won't have time to (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) about lunch breaks -- those lucky enough to find a job won't have time to pee. Enjoy your collapsed civilization.
     
  22. stonehorse

    stonehorse New Member

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    The race to the bottom again!

    You are saying that we should bring our living standard down to the level of the undeveloped world. You seem to think that our working class should give up everything for the benefit of the owner class.

    When the people decide the system is not working for them they will (and should) burn it down.

    It has started.
     
  23. Caeia Iulia Regilia

    Caeia Iulia Regilia New Member

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    The so-called working class doesn't work, and I'm sorry but they don't create jobs. I hate people like you who have the "rights" mentality that means that rather than having Americans work, we give those jobs to the Chinese. On behalf of the Chinese, I'd like to thank you for sending all of our jobs down there. They're happy to have them.

    Lemme clue you in, Comrade. When the last business shutters its doors, when the last farming job goes to an illegal alien because Americans won't take a job for less than $20 an hour, then my dear Comrade, you'll happily cross the border to a third world nation where all the jobs went because you taught American idiots that they were too good to work them. That's what you're too stupid or brainwashed to get -- every single time you insist that you have a "right" you drive up the cost of doing business. Every time you put out a rediculous regulation "for the environment" you drive up the cost of doing business. And those shiney new Chinese factories are the result -- businesses CANNOT AFFORD to make things in America or hire Americcans because of all those stupid regulations that cost the job-creators money.

    But burn baby burn. Revolutions have but one effect -- tyranny and the literal starvation of the poor. You must love them so.
     
  24. stonehorse

    stonehorse New Member

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    Your first sentence is strange. The working class doesn't work? Who does, then?

    Yes they do create jobs. In fact members of the working class start small business. It is they who are the job creators. Our pampered rich are the job destroyers with their decision to stop being manufacturers and become importers.

    It is not regulation that destroyed our manufacturing base. Or wages or any of the other BS reasons right wingers use to cover up the fact that American capitalists use the government they bought to eliminate import taxes so they can plunder the third world for cheap labor.

    Your greed based arguments are outdated and I have to wonder if you are getting paid to make these ridiculous claims. If you really believe them I think you need to look at the rest of the industrial world, especially Germany, and see how things can be done differently.
     
  25. Caeia Iulia Regilia

    Caeia Iulia Regilia New Member

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    The mexicans and the chinese and indians work. They're the ones lining up around the block for labor that you stick your nose up at. If you tell one of these workers to do something, they'll do it. And the reason that they're so called "plundering" the overseas market is that you'll get ten willing and eager chinese workers for the cost of a single american. Even if there was an import tax, it would have to be really really high to offset the gains to be made by hiring said chinese. The fact is that all of the regulations, labor laws and benefits that American workers think they deserve because they show up on time and half-ass their work. You and yours have destroyed our economy by pricing America out of the labor market. And you still think that such behavior is a good idea and further that we need to do more to punish the rich who still try to do business in America. Well good luck with that. Have you ever seen labor or OSHA regs? How about the crap that the EPA demands?

    And you cannot be serious in holding up Europe as an example. 2 governments have already collapsed because of liberal fantasies very similar to yours, and even in those few countries that aren't a basket case, 10% unemployment is considered a GOOD economy. Yes, lets be like Europe. Lets ramp up the welfare state and slide into obscurity. Why should we want to be achievers when we can get 70% of our people on welfare.
     

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