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Thread: Is Taxation Theft?

  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taxpayer View Post
    Sixty-five words without a single capitalization, punctuation mark, or hint that you actually read anything to which you are responding. If I didn't recognize some of the words in your post as being extracted from my own, I would believe you using a random word generator to build your posts.
    One more try.

    It was saying that if someone denies themselves services from the government that is made available through taxation, they are not justified in making the claim that they are victims of theft because they choose to provide those services for themselves at an extra expense.

    That is why that post was disingenuous as it was attempting to claim it was theft when someone pays taxes for services which they can avail themselves of.
    Last edited by liberalminority; Jan 16 2012 at 03:33 PM.
    NOT ALL CONSERVATIVES ARE RACIST, but all racists are conservative.

    UnAmerican not to be for Obama,Government=Solution,Patriotism=Paying Taxes

    Democrats: Freedom For Poor Republicans: Freedom For Rich

  2. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by liberalminority View Post
    That is why that post was disingenuous as it was attempting to claim it was theft when someone pays taxes for services which they can avail themselves of.
    It didn't make that claim.

    Please read my posts before responding to them.
    Henry George's theories were based on land ownership and how far a business was from a public resource like a mill or waterway. The man lived and died a decade before the model T was produced much less modern transportation and communication. Not only did Henry George never hear of the Internet, he barely lived long enough to see the electric light. Applying the theories of Henry George to modern nations is about as risky as letting the most brilliant caveman design your next airport.

  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonofodin View Post
    Okay so I've been seeing that a lot of people think that taxation is not robbery and I'd like to challenge that notion. I'd like to do a one on one debate with anyone who is willing to step up to the plate. We can decide on definitions for the purposes of the debate before it begins. Is anyone interested?
    Taxation is not theft, its more like a protection fee from the Mafia.

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taxpayer View Post
    It didn't make that claim.

    Please read my posts before responding to them.
    agreed it attempted to make the claim
    NOT ALL CONSERVATIVES ARE RACIST, but all racists are conservative.

    UnAmerican not to be for Obama,Government=Solution,Patriotism=Paying Taxes

    Democrats: Freedom For Poor Republicans: Freedom For Rich

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thinker View Post
    Taxation is not theft, its more like a protection fee from the Mafia.
    What do mafia protect you from?
    They claim to be the solution to the problem, when it is they who are the problem.
    If the mafia were to simply go away, you would only be better off for it.

    The government may ask you to pay for protection,
    but what is it that the government primarily protects you from?
    What would you face, if the government were to cease to exist?

    Or do you mean that in the same way that BleedingHeadKen meant it?????

    -Meta

  6. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meta777 View Post
    What do mafia protect you from?
    They claim to be the solution to the problem, when it is they who are the problem.
    If the mafia were to simply go away, you would only be better off for it.

    The government may ask you to pay for protection,
    but what is it that the government primarily protects you from?
    What would you face, if the government were to cease to exist?

    Or do you mean that in the same way that BleedingHeadKen meant it?????

    -Meta
    Other countries, economic downfall, general *hit that since we have a government mafia we dont even think about.

  7. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by liberalminority View Post
    That is why that post was disingenuous as it was attempting to claim it was theft when someone pays taxes for services which they can avail themselves of.
    Quote Originally Posted by Taxpayer View Post
    It didn't make that claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by liberalminority View Post
    agreed it attempted to make the claim





    I attempted to make the claim? You are stating I wanted to say something other than what I actually said? And you are criticizing me for what you imagine I wanted to say instead? Even though you recognize I did not say it?

    I'm done. You are already arguing with the voices in your head rather that with me -- there is no need for me to be involved in this discussion.
    Henry George's theories were based on land ownership and how far a business was from a public resource like a mill or waterway. The man lived and died a decade before the model T was produced much less modern transportation and communication. Not only did Henry George never hear of the Internet, he barely lived long enough to see the electric light. Applying the theories of Henry George to modern nations is about as risky as letting the most brilliant caveman design your next airport.

  8. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taxpayer View Post
    I attempted to make the claim? You are stating I wanted to say something other than what I actually said? And you are criticizing me for what you imagine I wanted to say instead? Even though you recognize I did not say it?

    I'm done. You are already arguing with the voices in your head rather that with me -- there is no need for me to be involved in this discussion.
    in the posts below there were two attempts to make the claim that taxation is theft, they both failed but nonetheless anyone can see what their intent was and that is what was disingenuous

    legality constitutes the differences between taxation and theft, just because someone can avail themselves of services provided by taxation does not mean they are victims of theft and so on........

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxpayer View Post
    Yes, the key is it's unlawful. You had asserted that the difference between theft and taxation was that "Taxation is not theft in so far as it is a means to pay for services which people may be able to avail themselves of."(*) I provided an example of which you agree is theft, which also paid for services which people may be able to avail themselves of. I did this as a way of showing you that what the seized wealth provided is not the distinction between taxation and theft. The distinction is whether the law allowed them to be seized.(*)

    If someone took your car or home and sold it, illegally -- it would be theft. If someone took your car or home and sold it, legally -- it could be a tax. Whether the money from the sale was used to build a well or just handed to J.P. Morgan... well, the fed has done both (and worse). They still call it a tax.
    the one below shows circular logic

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxpayer View Post
    *shrug* I don't think so. It truly is an example of theft which "pay(s) for services which people may be able to avail themselves of." It therefore truly demonstrates that "pay(ing) for services which people may be able to avail themselves of" does not make something "not theft."

    The example might be inconvenient for you... but if it's wrong you have yet to show me the error.

    Anyway: you're welcome.
    Last edited by liberalminority; Jan 17 2012 at 02:20 PM.
    NOT ALL CONSERVATIVES ARE RACIST, but all racists are conservative.

    UnAmerican not to be for Obama,Government=Solution,Patriotism=Paying Taxes

    Democrats: Freedom For Poor Republicans: Freedom For Rich

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxpayer View Post
    My assertion was not describing taxation. It was describing theft. My statement was a genuine attempt to show that the criteria Kramer proposed for proving something cannot be theft ("Taxation is not theft in so far as it is a means to pay for services which people may be able to avail themselves of") was insufficient. It's called a counter example.
    You took my example totally out of context and attempted to perform an intellectual "beat-down" in this discussion by trying to bring the example of theft and your persistence in trying legitimatize that woefully erroneous tactic.

    The fact that The Supremacy Clause of the Constitution* commands that Article 1 section 8 of the Constitution to be recognized by the judiciary clearly established such as a matter of law. There was no reason to reinvent the wheel. Further, there was no reason to introduce the legality of taxation as that was already suggested by you in your previous post. Therefore, I provided a reason to be expanded upon should it have been necessary. Such was not as you suggest the sole "criteria Kramer proposed for proving something cannot be theft".

    I treated you and your thoughts with respect, patience and tolerance in return you specifically informed me you wanted to "to help [me] understand [my] error". I found your position to be quite demeaning and I informed you that, "your hypothetical was superfluous, condescending and plain old wrong."

    I provided you with my reasoning and left this discussion. Kindly do not mention me again in this thread unless it is to show a true error or reliance on my posts rather than another attempt to characterize me or my posts in a negative light to validate your failure to give credibility to your example and your attitude in this thread.

    Thank you

    Kramer

    ______________________________ ______________________________ ____

    *Article VI: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any state to the Contrary notwithstanding.

  10. Default Taxes are legal theft

    You all are acting like this is a black and white situation when it's not. Government operates in a gray area called "color or law".

    Black's Law Dictionary 4th Edition

    Tax, v. A precuniary burden laid upon individuals or property to support the government, and is a payment exacted by legislative authority.


    Exaction. The wrongful act of an officer or other person in compelling payment of a fee or reward for his services, under color of his official authority, where no payment was due.

    Between "extortion" and "exaction" there is this difference: that in the former case the officer extorts more than his due, when something is due to him; in the latter, he exacts what is not due, when there is nothing due to him. Co.Litt. 368.

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