AP FACT CHECK: Obamacare Repeal Not Nearly As Easy As GOP Candidates Claim

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Agent_286, Nov 4, 2011.

  1. Agent_286

    Agent_286 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,889
    Likes Received:
    213
    Trophy Points:
    0
    AP FACT CHECK:Obamacare Repeal Not Nearly As Easy As GOP Candidates Claim

    By Calvin Woodward and Ricardo Alonzo-Zaldivor | HuffPost | 11/03/2011

    Excerpts:

    WASHINGTON – “To hear some Republican presidential candidates tell it, the president's pen is a magic wand that can make "Obamacare" vanish in one day and sweep in cheaper health care, economic growth and lots of jobs in businesses freed from the health care law's heavy hand.

    But there is no such fairy dust in Washington.

    Across the board, the contenders pledge to repeal the health law they denigrate as "Obamacare." In doing so, some are more realistic than others about what they can achieve and how fast.

    The Republican case against the law comes with a dose of myth-making that may raise false hopes among voters who wish it could, in fact, simply go "poof." If the overhaul is to fall, it won't happen overnight with a new GOP administration. Any dismantling promises to be just as much of a slog as was its creation.

    Mitt Romney has been the most persistent in claiming that as president, he would free states from the law's requirements with an executive order on his first day in charge, even though he would have no authority to do so. Rick Perry has held out the prospect of lower health insurance premiums once the law is gone, citing research that actually tells a mostly different story.

    Herman Cain would like to turn repeal into a birthday present of sorts. He says if Congress moves fast enough he'd sign the repeal March 23, 2013 – his son's birthday and the third anniversary of the law's signing.

    All place the law's repeal as a chief component of their plans to grow the economy and jobs, rightly noting the overhaul's myriad regulations but overselling the ability of one act of legislative subtraction to lift all boats.

    A look at some of the claims in the Republican campaign and how they compare with the facts:

    ROMNEY: "One thing I'd do on Day One if I'm elected president is direct my secretary of health and human services to put an executive order granting a waiver from Obamacare to all 50 states. It is bad law. It will not work. And I'll get that done on Day One." – Claim in Sept. 7 debate, which he echoed in most other debates.

    PERRY: "And I'll promise you, on Day One, as the president of the United States, that executive order will be signed and Obamacare will be wiped out as much as it can be." – Sept. 7 debate.

    CAIN: "I'm going to un-pass it on my son's birthday." – Nov. 2 forum with the GOP's Congressional Health Care Caucus.”

    Read full article:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/03/obamacare-repeal-gop-candidates_n_1074183.html
    ……

    As any knowledgeable person can tell, the propaganda spewed out by republicans/T-baggers in their effort to smear President Obama with diatribe in their efforts to have Obama a one-term-president has focused on the Obama HealthCare Plan which will be one of the crowning glories of the Obama tenure of eight years. This plan will give all Americans excellent healthcare without the yearly gouging of raised insurance rates by insurance companies, the very people that finance the republicans/T-baggers.

    The deliberate smearing of a health plan that actually benefits all Americans says a lot about republicans/T-baggers that deliberately tried to railroad it out of existence…but it got passed and is now the law. As the republicans/T-baggers continue to say they will repeal the law on Day One, is a clear lie. Even if by chance they get the majority in both houses and the presidency, it would take years for them to be rid of the Obama health plan, as the law increasingly takes root in the nation's medical and insurance system as we speak.

    Even as they try to dismantle the health plan, it will be close to 2017 before states can even start the process of getting off the requirements of the plan, and it may take years from then as it winds thru the courts. Of course the plan would already have been instituted in their state for years and will have been in full use by America.....zzzzzz.....
     
  2. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2009
    Messages:
    30,071
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Justices to review Obamacare...
    :fart:
    Supreme Court to hear dispute on health care law
    14 Nov.`11 WASHINGTON – The Supreme Court announced Monday that it will hear a dispute testing the constitutionality of the Obama-sponsored health care overhaul, a move that opens the most important chapter in the legal battle over the law.
     
  3. webrockk

    webrockk Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Messages:
    25,361
    Likes Received:
    9,081
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    IMO....If the mandate is ruled unconstitutional...which I believe it will be...Obamacare will probably die on the vine due to lack of seperate funding bills being passed by the house...(which for all intents and purposes, will be held by GOP/TP/conservatives for quite a while to come)...and won't require any direct actions to "repeal" it...it'll just quietly waste away from starvation.

    admittedly, I'm not even close to being up on all the machinations and possible outcomes....anyone have a different take?
     
  4. way2convey

    way2convey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    16,627
    Likes Received:
    466
    Trophy Points:
    83
    1) Obamacare individual mandate is struck down....the rest of the HC law will still to be formally buried or it will come back to haunt us.
    2) Obamacare individual mandate is ruled constitutional.....in which case we could now be told if you are two car family, one will have to be an electric one or you will pay a penality.
     
  5. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    34,260
    Likes Received:
    8,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Its not a penalty, its a tax, remember?
     
  6. Consmike

    Consmike New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2009
    Messages:
    45,042
    Likes Received:
    487
    Trophy Points:
    0
    haha, first it wasn't a tax, but once they rammed it through, now they are claiming it is a tax.
     
  7. Dasein

    Dasein New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,944
    Likes Received:
    95
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Interesting that Republican nominee's are lying right out of the gate.
     
  8. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2008
    Messages:
    94,819
    Likes Received:
    15,788
    Trophy Points:
    113
    All rhetoric. Nothing in your quote explains WHY it would be so hard. The SCOTUS will knock down the requirement to force people to buy insurance. Once that happens the Democrats will always be know as the ones who screwed up health care worse than it already was.

     
  9. Goldwater

    Goldwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    11,825
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The thing about the mandate...and I know this because I work for a medical insurer...is that the mandate was supposed to drive so many billions of more dollars into the medical inusrance marketplace because it was forcing healthy people to have insurance. Without the mandate....health inusrance carriers will just have to raise premiums that much more...and cut benefits that much more, and raise copays and deductibles that much more.

    No way around it folks....if the SCOTUS kills the mandate...those of you with insurance now...will pay more
     
  10. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    34,260
    Likes Received:
    8,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Unless they kill the whole thing...
     
  11. Dasein

    Dasein New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,944
    Likes Received:
    95
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes! Which is the real reason Republicans want to kill the mandate!

    I bet they've already started their insider trading deals.
     
  12. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    34,260
    Likes Received:
    8,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Conservatives want to kill the whole thing, stop lying.
     
  13. Goldwater

    Goldwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    11,825
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Hey Dispondent!.......they probably won't be able to kill the mandate either. Obama is a constitutional scholar....he knew exactly how to make the law consitutionally sound. Even Scalia and Roberts will have a hard time making the argument against the mandate work.

    See....nobody is telling anyone they MUST have insurance....they're telling them they won't get a tax break that people who do have it, will get. The forces against the mandate are using the old "you can't make me" argument
     
  14. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    34,260
    Likes Received:
    8,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hey Goldwater! Obama didn't write it, a very partisan and confrontational Congress did. Does the language support it as a tax? Is that why it had to be passed before we could see what was in it? It was only considered a tax after the mandate was challenged. So considering it a tax does not seem to be the original intent. I don't think this USSC is going to be swayed by semantics if the language in the bill doesn't support it.
     
  15. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2008
    Messages:
    94,819
    Likes Received:
    15,788
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Read my post....

    http://www.politicalforum.com/curre...ly-easy-gop-candidates-claim.html#post4708868

    The bill should have never passed in the first place, that's why the Democrats had to use cheap reconciliation parlor tricks to get it passed. They will regret that for a long time to come as the Pigeons are coming back to Crapistrsano soon.
     
  16. GiveUsLibertyin2012

    GiveUsLibertyin2012 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,064
    Likes Received:
    170
    Trophy Points:
    0
    defund the (*)(*)(*)(*) thing and let it die.
     
  17. Goldwater

    Goldwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    11,825
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    At one point....I remember someone telling me that Obama did have input on the madate thing, and that it was carefully crafted with forethought regarding the day it would be challenged....but hey, my memory sucks.
     
  18. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    19,083
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Trophy Points:
    113
    :lol:

    So NOW its NOT "Obamacare".

    Good to know.
     
  19. fiddlerdave

    fiddlerdave Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    Messages:
    19,083
    Likes Received:
    2,706
    Trophy Points:
    113
    :lol:

    So NOW its NOT "Obamacare".

    A few years ago the SAME program was "Romney-care"!

    Oh! What a tangled web the Right Wing weaves.....
     
  20. webrockk

    webrockk Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Messages:
    25,361
    Likes Received:
    9,081
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    If you're having trouble understanding why PPACA is called "Obamacare"....

    See: "Bush's War for Oil"

    Perhaps that'll clear things up for you.

    *wink*
     
  21. Goldwater

    Goldwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2009
    Messages:
    11,825
    Likes Received:
    148
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Hey Pea!...how ya been?

    I think it'll be crows that come back to Capistrano btw....

    But repealing that law is not going to help....it's a start...but it won't help. Medical care in America is on a downhill run with flaming brakes, careening out of control into the "access to care" crisis cliff.

    Nobody, escpecially Republicans, have a plan to stop it.

    Here is what will happen for sure. At some point, 10 years TOPS, 90% of Americans will not be able to afford insurance...99% of Americans won't be able to afford to pay doctors and hospitals directly...Insurance companies will go broke...Dr's will go broke...and people will be dieing outside emergency rooms.

    Whaddya think will happen next?
     
  22. Kingofwow

    Kingofwow New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,684
    Likes Received:
    32
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I would agree that this is gonna be years to work out, I'm also not so sure this will die in the Courts. From what I been seeing it seems to be that the SCOTUS are in nearly full agreement that the Commerce Clause is the exact clause that allows the Federal Government into all matters given or not given to them by the Constitution.

    I really don't see how the individual mandate will effect the HC of our nation whether it be shot down or upheld. Our HC is indeed out of control by the hands of the Fed's and States, the main damage is gonna be done to the HC providers, Insurance companies will just leave the business.

    Nurses and Dr's for the most part will still be, there time spent with patients will just be shorten along with medical procedures esp the more cosmetic ones. Dr's and Nurses along with Hospitals will just have to squeeze cost as much as they can and everyone knows the few real spots to cut will be Nurses and Tech's first so they will feel the pain first, the little people of the HC business, once again by the hands of those lib's, commies progressives or what ever they are calling themselves today?
     
  23. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2008
    Messages:
    94,819
    Likes Received:
    15,788
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Hi Goldie, I broke my wrist so not so good. Hope your doing well!

    As far as the Republican Party having a plan to stop it, it all hinges on the SCOTUS and the mandate to by insurance. I simply can't see them doing that, not with a general welfare argument. If they knock that down it will be chaos. Heaven help anyone who voted for it, especially in reconciliation.
     
  24. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    34,260
    Likes Received:
    8,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's the biggest piece of trash legislation to come during his administration, by any name, it still sucks.
     
  25. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2009
    Messages:
    34,260
    Likes Received:
    8,086
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Even if he was part, I have severe doubts he played any significant role in the wording or crafting of the actual bill. If he did, what duties was he neglecting by doing Congress' job for them?
     

Share This Page