Yes He Can: How To Help Ron Paul Win Iowa (Call, Stump, Organize)

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by jaktober, Nov 5, 2011.

  1. jaktober

    jaktober Member

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  2. MnBillyBoy

    MnBillyBoy New Member

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    Simply amazing.Cycle after cycle.
    Ground hog day with Paul as the lead.

    Again remind us in your own words why Paul is the best politician out there.
    Dont use other web sites..describe how Paul would make your world better.
    Then I'll debate how messed up his assumptions on the constitution really are.
    I'll use historical fact to blow Paul out of the water.
    Lincoln ..??
    mm can you say Habeas Corpus?
    as HE suspended it.
    When America was threatened GREAT PRESIDENTS rose to the occasion..this little man shrinks from his responsibility and makes America weaker.
    There have always been Paul's in the world ..great speakers about the rule of law..funny thing when the chips are down they usually shut up.
    Not this Paul.
     
  3. jaktober

    jaktober Member

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    Well, that article is on my website, so those are my words.

    First thing is that I work within reality, so I choose the best candidate out of those running (and capable of winning).

    My case for Paul.

    1. Foreign Policy: I opposed the occupation of Afghanistan and the invasion of Iraq. In general I oppose Imperialism. These wars have cost hundreds of thousands of lives and trillions of dollars. They put our economy at risk, and thus the social services and infrastructure we rely on. In addition, drone bombing (which Obama has championed) are causing resistance to us around the world. Protests in Yemen and Pakistan only threaten our standing in the world. Afghanistan has spoken out in favor of Pakistan if they were to resist our presence.

    Our foreign policy threatens our national defense, the lives of innocent people around the world, the stability of the international community, and our economy at home. No other candidate challenges the status-quo in this regard (other than third-party candidates).

    My words: http://freeindependentsun.com/republic/the-youth-war-and-why-women-should-support-ron-paul-despite-his-views-on-abortion/

    Plus: http://freeindependentsun.com/permaculture/end-the-war-a-memorial-day-endorsement-ron-paul-for-presidentgreen-party-for-congress-2012/

    2. Drug Policy. The war on drugs has cost us billions of dollars, and has taken up energy and resources from fighting other crimes. Half our prison population (the largest in the world) is caused by the war on drugs. Even the violent crimes associated with the war on drugs are caused by the war on drugs. Gangs, both domestic and foreign, are funded and motivated by the illegal drug trade, as was the mafia during prohibition.

    Marijuana has many medicinal values, and the Obama administration has made it harder to gain access to it.

    In addition the Drug War targets minority communities far more than white communities, destroys families, and the lives of individuals. It also creates violence on the border of mexico, and prohibits states from making their own laws (as they do with tobacco and alcohol).

    More of my words: http://freeindependentsun.com/healing/longest-standing-legal-medical-marijuana-dispenser-urges-supporters-to-register-republican-and-vote-for-ron-paul/

    3. Consolidation of power. I believe power corrupts, and that centralized power away comes at the cost of individual power and freedom. For this reason I don't support a central world government, bank or trade union at all, support small "libertarian" government at the federal level, and strong progressive government at the local and state level. I support Ron Paul for President and the Green Party in all other offices.

    My words: http://freeindependentsun.com/republic/vote-local-vote-green-a-grassroots-campaign/

    Mas Verde: http://freeindependentsun.com/republic/greens-go-local-november-8-2011-occupy-the-election/

    Green Party for Congress, in my words: http://freeindependentsun.com/republic/green-party-for-congress-2012-and-why-the-green-party-is-the-third-party-in-american-politics/

    4. Priorities: Ron Paul is the only candidate that has an economic plan to prioritize cuts in overseas spending, military imperialism and corporatism, in order to protect Health Care and Social Security for those dependent on the system. This will ensure that a future "true progressive" Congress (green party) can got through a public option if the people support it. It will also help us lower the debt, and balance the budget.

    5. Death Penalty: I oppose it. It is used to target minorities and has led to the execution of innocent people. There is not taking back death. Ron Paul is the only candidate that opposes it (from the major parties).

    6. Sound money. I save in Gold and Silver, and it appears to me to be more stable than Federal Reserve Notes. In addition, the Fed allows for all the over spending (and military intervention), that has damaged our defense and economy. I have no problem with people being free to use fiat currency, but mandating it is a problem. I want the ability to pay my taxes in Gold and Silver, and thus, create incentive for it to be accepted for goods and services.

    7. Gardening Freedom, SB 510. Anything that makes it harder for people to grow their own food is counter productive toward the goals of health, freedom, and environment.

    My words: http://freeindependentsun.com/permaculture/the-freedom-of-food-how-to-stop-senate-bill-s-510/

    8. Engaging the Youth. If we are going to have a sustainable democracy (or Republic) we need the next generation to be involved, and Ron Paul does just that, more so than any other candidate (including Obama).

    9. Direction. Aside from that, the Presidency reflects the general direction of the country. After 8 years of bush we were desperate for change, and Obama represented superficial and rhetorical change. That was good enough for then. But now we need substantial change and Ron Paul represents that.

    In addition, he creates a buffer time in which the "status-quo" will lose its monopoly on government. In order for us to advance non-politically we need that time zone, even for 4 years will allows up the freedom to pursue the endeavors that will lead mankind into a better future. You can read my words on that subject by following all the 2012 links in this article:

    http://freeindependentsun.com/zen/2012-enlightenment-theory-appendix/

    Sorry, forgot to mention the Constitution, guess you can't challenge any assumptions about it. Um, "Freedom of Speech!" There, we can start with that.
     
  4. MnBillyBoy

    MnBillyBoy New Member

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    Much better..
    I have looked at your site..
    Debate without emotion..cool

    My case against Paul and some you forgot or maybe neglected ?

    1. Foreign Policy.
    While you consider this a strength..I see it as his main weakness.I am less concerned about the imperialism charges and more focused on the idea of our effective drone tactics make our enemies despise us more ?
    GEE GO FIGURE.
    I would use them where ever and when ever it is in America's best interest.
    INCLUDING Mexico against the drug Cartels.
    I would probable agree with you the gun deal gone south (pun intended ) without including Mexican intelligence was a bad deal.
    If Paul was elected..would Pakistan then feel it was justified into attacking India ? There are other reasons some nations hate and FEAR us.
    Because of who we support and ally ourselves with.
    Withdrawing troops from everywhere in the world would not lead to peace ..but a broader war. I truly believe that from past history.
    The ONLY reason 3rd party people challenge that is because they need a wedge to divide themselves from the status Partys.
    They have no experience in governing at any level..anywhere..but peace and love does have a nice ring to it.

    2. Drug Policy.
    Same deal has above..I actually know better.I have lived 58 years..25 in southern California in the late 60-80's. Cheap pot ..little drug enforcement.
    4 finger lids for 15-20 and a 25 buck ticket IF caught.
    It wasn't pretty..ask anybody who lived then and there done that.
    Laws and enforcement changed for a reason and purpose.
    Ask any parent like me who has put kids through rehab..it all started with a simple joint.In Minnesota it's now cheap Heroin..17 dead in one county in less than 2 months..kids 15-20 years old.
    Pot has many medical usages?

    Yes only if we the people pay for it.

    3. Consolidation of power.
    A point of agreement... but I need to go farther..the president has taken power away from congress.It is Congress who was elected to rule..not the EPA ..job commission ..debt committee.
    While Paul speaks of these things what did he do in congress to fight against those things ?
    I need bills he authored..not just NO votes against going to war..
    I need to see that broad congressional support backing him up on these issues..he didn't get in in congress.
    My guy Romney speaks largely in his plan on making government more Efficient.Giving power back to the states...limiting presidential powers..forcing Congress to make the decisions it needs to..
    But all in all I agree with you and Paul on this issue.

    4. Priorities.
    Another point of some agreement..but not a lot.
    He does lower military spending but at what cost ?
    Romney's 1st priority is to free up regulations limiting private sector expansion.Government doesn't create jobs..but it sure can limit them expanding. A robust economy and a strong defense ..it doesn't need to be one OR the other.

    5. Death Penalty.
    Since certain members of my family work in Corrections for over 20 years ..I disagree.Locking them, up and giving them better medical attention than we give our school kids..better education than many school kids receive... and allowing no death penalty has not heeded heinous crimes.
    Prisons actual TRAIN criminals to be more effective criminals when they are released. Remember the code of the old West ?
    Didn't see a lot of Horse thieves did you ? A colt made every man equal.
    Why ? Because you could be killed...

    6. SOUND MONEY.

    MY FAVORITE PAUL PLAN !..Now if he was for a strong defense..a border fence with e- verify ..and a continued war on drugs and the death penalty I might consider him.JUST on this alone I like him.
    If Romney is elected I would be extremely please if Romney appointed Paul to Secretary of the Treasury..the #5 spot in power.
    Anybody but TIM.
    Whoever wins ..that would be my replacement choice.

    7. ??? wow..I grow my own food..raise my own chickens..
    But I would need to know more on why that is a top issue to elect any person to the White House.

    8. Ahh.. The Kids ..
    You mean brain wash them instead of educating them?
    I despise any attempt to train children by forcing them into demonstrations..marches and protest. We need to teach our kids to read..write..math..and to reason independently.
    The ability to balance checkbook before graduating form the 8th grade would be nice.Maybe that might influence the youth on how life really works.
    Promising to end war..bring peace and drugs may not be that solution.

    9. Directional change..agreement..Not in Paul's direction.
    We need quality effective leadership to help guide us and protect us..then get out of the way.Paul on defense is a new direction..not a BETTER direction.

    10. The 4 year deal..he said he only wants 1 term.What in Gods green earth makes you believe that any congress made up of opposing democrats and opposing republicans would allow anything he wants ?
    In the beginning of your post you had ( capable of winning )
    This is his 3rd go round.2 times before he did the exact same campaign deals.Raised money to show support..won straw polls to show support and in the previous 2 times he got less than 10 %
    You didn't mention age..so I will..he is a 22 year veteran of Congress..which he never stopped corruption..wars ..or balanced any budget.passed any major legislation.
    He regulated...a broken system...one he a was part of.
    He appears too old.. too frail on stage..Other counties have leaders that would make him look even weaker than his positions on defense.

    He served as best as he could.He served with honor.
    That's about all I can say for him.
    Better than most by a long shot..but not has good as what's out there against him now.
    The Country needs a proven leader.
    I offer 2.

    Romney/Pawlenty 2012.
     
  5. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

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    MBB

    1) Where in History does it prove that taking soldiers out of Foreign Countries increases War? So far the only cases in History show that Imperialism ends up destroying a country within and eventually it crumbles from every side. The "effective" drone tactics are only effective if you take in the data of "Suspected" Al Qaeda Members killed and leave out the Collateral Damage involved. Also the Soldiers under a Ron Paul Presidency would be stationed and would be monitoring the borders of the USA rather than the Borders of a foreign Country. Also considering under his Presidency he would most likely establish Letters of Marque to Officers to pursue Criminal Organizations rather than directly sending the entire US Military to deal with an issue.

    2) Yet... the same Drug Cartels you despise you give them the Power over the Drug Supply by making it illegal for Citizens to Produce/Consume the products. Alcohol prohibition was a complete failure and it's as clear as day that the Prohibition of Today is another failure... It's proven that once a substance/product becomes illegal people are more apt to try it and most likely become addicted to it. Let the States handle their Drug Problems and do not give the Power to decide to some Monolithic Bureaucracy that doesn't see shades of gray in something that is completely based upon Morals.

    3) He has authored many bills and you can actively search them yourself but, you're asking for he himself and a few lone Politicians to actively change the Government when it has become a Monster. The American People didn't care at all to change what was happening considering they themselves were living in prosperity... Now we're hearing echos of Ron Paul and many others in those trying to eliminate Federal Power yet you consider him a nothing Politician. It's quite hard to change a Government when the people simply DO NOT CARE to change their free rides.

    4) Lowering Militarism and not Defense which is the Key to the entire perspective... Giving Weapons to Somalian Warlords, Funding Dictators, Establishing Coups of Elected Governments and actively spreading the War without Declaring War isn't helping the USA. It simply helps to undermine the US Constitution and the Rights of the People which actively draining money from the Citizens through inflation to pay for the Militarism. Also go ahead and list as to what Romney will do on the part of Regulations.

    6) How does creating a Fence protect you from illegals stills taking advantage of a System that finances them for being illegal? You defuse the reason to want to be illegal you don't put up Walls.

    7) The Government now has the right to interfere in how you manage your own fields/garden... It's quite a long list as to how they can step onto your land and consider your entire garden a violation then proceed to fine you.

    8 ) The entire point Jaktober wanted to present was to teach children the Law, History and the Constitution while of course teaching other things too. What I recall from my classes was 1-2 days (90minutes roughly) of an overview of the entire Constitution which was simply reading the Articles once and moving on... Quite pathetic.

    9) The General Direction is to cut spending ASAP and the Wars/Militarism isn't helping so the country is in dire need of ending such funding.

    10) As President he has a lot of Power to shift the atmosphere of the US Government by quite a large degree. Also why do you keep chiming in on him not being able to stop said acts? You're asking him to turn into Judge Dredd and execute people on the spot. That doesn't happen in reality and in his Elected Position it doesn't work either. You seem to stick to what were impossibles under his influence of power...
     
  6. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

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    You Ron Paul freaks have absolutely no expertise, or even hint of a clue, about how foreign policy on the planet works.

    You think protectionism and isolationism can protect us?

    You realize that we are indelibly linked to the Globalized Economy and therefore our vulnerability, our "self defense" is globalized now? There is no hiding from that, there is building a wall and creating "Fortress America".

    That is a short sighted and ignorant pipe dream.

    Ron Paul's ideology is an outdated form of paleo conservatism more fit for 1861 than 2011
     
  7. MnBillyBoy

    MnBillyBoy New Member

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    RH..
    I didn't quite frame my displeasure in Paul's foreign policy in that way..
    By nature the close proximity of armies..ships and planes leads to conflicts.
    By having buffer areas and monitoring said war machines we can reduce the risk..but what about someone like Iran ?
    Its a different culture to the Muslim extremest.They care nothing about rules..boundaries.. diplomacy and safe guards in the art of war designed to help prevent misunderstandings.
    Look and you can see where weak governments cannot control terrorist withing their sovereign borders.
    Pakistan..Indochina.. Peru..Brazil..Spain ...Turkey and of course Mexico.
    Mexico where we have fro 200 years INVADED their country to kill rustlers.. cattle thieves and now drug cartels.
    If they wont do it we must..What happens when the drug cartel gets a dirty bomb ? Or the Iranians get 1 and decide to nuke Israel ?
    Think that would have any consequent for us far removed ?

    See WW1.
    WW2.
    Just saying we'll defend our nation is naive at best.
    Stupid and ignorant at worst.

    2. I give them no power at all.IF I was in charge I would shoot drug runners on the spot and end the BS in 1 year. How's that for 999. Turn that upside down and force the drug cartels to choke on their own crapola.Just as Libs want to do with raising oil prices so we wont use gas cars.
    NO diff.

    6. Romney does both..another reason to support him ..Paul does neither.

    Ending military spending is a noble concept..one I hope wont go away.
    I just dont want it to be the only concept for national defense.
    WE can have it all..with someone who understands how to FIX it..not dismantle it .
     
  8. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

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    Look up Isolationism/Protectionism and come back with the actual definitions without making yourself appear a fool. You're advocating Imperialism and nothing more.
     
  9. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

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    The constant "What if..." keep circulating with nothing to really support it other than pure imagination and the underlying desire to do harm to others. Your comparisons to other countries not being able to handle their own internal problems isn't even relevant at all and saying Israel is going to be Nuked is laughable. The basis of keeping our Troops/Bases overseas is completely imaginary as well as our idiotic foreign policy creating/funding terrorist elements that latter do us harm.

    1) WWII occurred due in large part because of the Restrictions and Economic destruction the rest of Europe imposed onto Germany. It wasn't due to our "Isolationist" practices but the meddling of other Nations creating resentment from the German people to follow an Insane man to whatever end. Our Foreign Policy changed AFTER WW2 and I don't see the benefits of our future engagements at all.

    2) End the bull(*)(*)(*)(*)? So you're calling more mass slaughter of every person who may be directly or indirectly part of the Illegal Drug Market. Out of the way Fifth Amendment we have people to kill!

    6) How so? Considering he wants to stop aid being given to illegals so that entire point is false. Creating a fence doesn't solve an issue when it's completely domestic Policy.

    Can you really hold an Empire? Has any Empire in the History of man survived their own actions towards others turning it upon the people themselves? Has the financing of endless War never crippled a Nation to destruction? Maintaining an Empire is a Short Term success and a Long Term failure... Not for the People but for those who profit from it and the Tyrants who impose it.

    Edit: Also where is the Romney deregulations at?
     
  10. MnBillyBoy

    MnBillyBoy New Member

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    #2 . I say this ...Shoot and kill drug smugglers entering this nation illegally to poison our children.
    Conservatives actually care about the welfare of our kids..we dont want to dope them up..brain wash them and teach them Obama songs.
    That notion that drug dealers are people too is Bogus...OTHER CIVILIZED nations kill them on the spot..and they dont have the drug issue.

    Doctors teaching our society that pain killers..pot and designer drugs are OK since we need to deal with all the stress..and pain..is More BOGUS alert!
    They should be jailed and lose any license to deal that garbage.

    Only when a society has a clean mind can we focus with clarity of purpose.
    Maybe that is why libertarians and the far left like the drug issue..To gain power with this stuff you need to be wacko in the 1st place.

    Illegality is CONSTITUTIONAL and there fore Paul and his Ilk are saying to disobey the law ?
    I say another reason Paul is a fraud. He doesn't get to pick and choose what laws he likes or dislikes.
    He is to swear an oath.

    Maybe he is the status quo after all ?
     
  11. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

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    "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

    You're asking for the Fifth Amendment to be removed because of your own Moral Standpoint on a Morally Conflicted Issue. Your entire claim is completely opinionated and saying Pain Killers don't help is idiotic... Tell that to the US Soldiers who get shot and have Medics operating on them are you going to tell them to "Suck it up" because Pain Killers are offensive to you? There are plenty of cases outside of the one I mentioned that makes Pain Killers and other Drugs extremely useful. You don't place anything factual in your presentation at all...

    Also where are the Romney deregulations? What about all of the other points?
     
  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He certainly is onto something important when he talks about the medicinal value of marijuana!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_cannabis
     
  13. Natty Bumpo

    Natty Bumpo Well-Known Member

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    Realistically, the GOP bosses, as that wealthy elite continues to increasingly concentrate the nation's bounty in their bottomless pockets, would not permit their cash cow to be sacrificed on the alter of tepid libertarian ideology. Their stooges in Congress have further enhanced their grip by legalizing a permissive attitude toward political financing that enables them to indulge their acquisitive passion under the cloak of anonymity, lest their agenda be too obvious if an American were allowed to "follow the money" to determine Cui Bono?

    In an elective democracy, it is essential that the oligarchs herd the unwashed masses into the right vote tally.

    Sheldon "Carrot Top" Adelson would not bankroll anyone who might not kowtow to Likud, and the Kochs seem confident that they could pull someone else's strings far more profitably than Randy's.

    For all his admirable ambitions - a rare disposition to curry favour with youth and non-White Americans among them - his nomination as the Republican candidate in 2016 is not a possibility.

    Necessity may dictate that Paul's time is yet to come in the GOP, but that existential crisis is not something the powers that be are yet ready to face.
     

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