The American-Western European Values Gap

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by kilgram, Nov 17, 2011.

  1. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    The gap in values between Western European values and American values is much higher than one would think at first. I think this article that I link is really interesting, and will put some lights because I think like I am thinking, maybe.

    I think that is something interesting to compare and see that we are more different than one would have thought in the first point.

    http://www.pewglobal.org/2011/11/17/the-american-western-european-values-gap/

    What is interesting is see how Europe is more less individualist than USA. In Europe there is not value of "the rest die or starve while I am having a lot of money", though in Europe influenced by USA is advancing to this thinking.

    Some graphs extract from the article:

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    Also is interesting to see how in Europe religion is not valued. Much less than in USA. And most of the people in Europe consider that is not necessary to believe in God to be moral, while in USA is the contrary, that can bring to some interesting conclusions, like USA is much more conservative than Europe.
     
  2. Flag

    Flag New Member

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    Nice post kilgram, I knew americans were backwards but I didnt imagined it to be so bad.
     
  3. IrishLefty

    IrishLefty New Member

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    With this I agree. The concept of a so called "God Fearing" or "Christian" nation of America is ridiculous, especially in context to much of the American right. Many of the so called "Christian Right" in America don't give a (*)(*)(*)(*) all about the disadvantaged in society.
     
  4. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    I know. It's hard to believe Americans actually believe they should be allowed to pursue their goals without government interference. And, my god, to think they actually have control over their ability to succeed. How backward.

    We all know that no one can succeed. They have to be cared for by the state. And the backward Americans haven't accepted that. Unbelievable.
     
  5. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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    Perhaps you should take a course on American political culture. The United States is not backwards in any sense of the world. We think differently than our western European counterparts.

    Our fundamental ideals are the following:

    1. Individual Responsibility (Rugged Individualism)
    2. Liberty (people should be able to do what they want with little government interference)
    3. Democracy (government should be accountable to the people)
    4. Equality of opportunity (not equality of result)
    5. Civic Duty (participation in government)

    In many European nations, there's greater emphasis on equality of result. Individual responsibility is still very important, but collective efforts are seen as the better approach towards daily activities.
     
  6. Awryly

    Awryly New Member Past Donor

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    At least there is some hope for Europe in all of that. Once the British rid themselves of Thatcherites like Blair and Cameron.

    It has the values to lift itself from the current decline. America has the values only to sink deeper into it.
     
  7. Flag

    Flag New Member

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    Check out the war,religion and homosexuality graphs.
     
  8. IrishLefty

    IrishLefty New Member

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    That's not my criticism, I attack the United States for refusing to aid society's disadvantaged while claiming to be a a bastion of greatness.
     
  9. algranny

    algranny New Member

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    It was in search of the individual that split the U.S. from England to begin with IMO. Coming to an uncivil nation to begin a new nation reinforced the individual spirit. It was those who survived the harsh conditions that built our innovative nature. No individual is like the next, it isn't a one size fits all for the world. Each is unique in their abilities, thoughts and ambitions, stifling that would create a stagnant nation.
     
  10. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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    To address religion, the United States was settled by a religious sect manifesting from the Protestant Reformation, the Puritans. From colonists to United States citizens, we have kept the ideals of the protestant work ethic alive and well. However, these ideals wouldn't have been maintained if not for a strong belief in god and religion.
     
  11. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    I know. In Finland I am studying American culture, and the next week I have the exam. That there will be questions like: How affected the Vietnam war to the American culture? :p

    PS: Democracy: USA is lack of democracy like European countries.
    Equality of opportunity: THis is doing better in Europe than USA
    Civic Duty: There is lack of it, consequence of the lack of democracy.
    Individual responsibility: In Europe also there is, but also there are values like no one should suffer.
     
  12. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    Yeah. Not at all, but. It is true that USA was funded by a religious sect, leaded by Winthrop :-D
     
  13. wopper stopper

    wopper stopper New Member

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    the values gap is an indictment of european values.

    the euros are just too stupid to realize it.
     
  14. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    Yeah. Not at all, but. It is true that USA was funded by a religious sect, leaded by Winthrop :-D
     
  15. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    Yeah. Not at all, but. It is true that USA was funded by a religious sect, leaded by Winthrop :-D
     
  16. diligent

    diligent New Member

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    Kilgram

    The figures you quote don't really give a true and accurate pcture as you constantly refer to Europe when you really should be referring to Western Europe. I doubt that the Poles, and many Russians, would be of the same religious mindset as their Western European cousins.

    And when you dissect the USA,you also need to disect the landmass between the (mainly) Southern States and SW States and the Northern and some Western States. The former would fit into your category of being religious, the latter certainly would not. And even then it can vary dramatically within a particular State.

    If the USA is so easily categorised as still being religious how do you account for rise in the acceptance of homosexuality, which first came to public prominence in the USA in places like San Francisco?

    The religious beliefs of the people of the USA are not so easily categorised.

    Frankly, I look forward to the day when we all give religion (otherwise known as witchcraft) the boot, and rely on rational thought!
     
  17. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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    The protestant work ethic is still a value that almost all Americans uphold. It has been distorted by many, particularly by younger citizens. However, it is has been ever-present.
     
  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Reading this thread, I've observed that Europeans really are not as supportive of multicultural diversity as I thought. They are extremely judgmental of certain other cultures.

    Interesting.
     
  19. Awryly

    Awryly New Member Past Donor

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    Work ethics are not Protestant.

    http://www.sharegoodstuffs.com/2011/05/top-10-hard-working-countries-of-world.html

    Unless the Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, Mexicans and Portuguese have suddenly converted.
     
  20. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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  21. Vergilius

    Vergilius Banned

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    Yes this doesn't surprise me much. Europe has more of a tradition of intellectualism. People live more socially in Europe because the infrastructure has been built with limited space in mind. People use public transit more, people seem to congregate more and go to the local city market,etc, it is just a different way of life.

    You notice also that Germany is very liberal on many issues, it is a result of their past. They have adapted their society to be more egalitarian as a preventative measure of the problems of the past. America hasn't had a war on our soil since the 19th century, whereas most of Western Europe was ravaged in WW1 and WW2 and other smaller conflicts.

    In addition, the US formed as a more isolated, agrarian culture. In modern times the US became a sprawling suburban/exurban/urban culture. The people in cities want more progressive legislation because they see the consequences of poverty on a daily basis, and the people in suburban and rural areas don't, because poverty doesn't personally effect them in the same way. Although many people are changing their views with the recent economic collapses and recessions in the US.

    People have views that don't really hold water when the roots of poverty are investigated. Because Americans (especially on the right) are more likely to accept anecdotes and prejudices than facts, they construct ideas of the class system as being much more meritocratic than it actually is. And even when they are confronted with the economic disparities they say that is the way it was meant to be, because they imagine that there is more opportunity in this country than there actually is and that poverty is always a consequence of laziness or social vice.

    For example: the stereotype used to discourage social help is that "they saw/heard of a woman who abuses food stamps to buy beer" so this becomes every person on food stamps, even though statistics show that most people on food stamps use them temporarily until they find a high enough wage that they no longer qualify.

    An example of their flawed view of meritocracy is saying that because one person, such as Bill Gates went from an upper middle class home to being the richest man on earth, that everyone in America has that same opportunity. Even though statistically in the United States people more often than not stay within the class they were born in (or fall to a lower class the last decade).

    As far as Christianity goes, I have always wondered as well how a book about a peaceful martyr who turned over tables at the market and rejected money and earthly goods and told people to be as meek and mild as lambs and turn the other cheek and give to your neighbor, forgive your enemies etc, can be interpreted as be pro-war, pro-capitalism, let the losers starve, etc...It doesn't make sense, but American preachers have had decades to try and justify the way the central tenets of the new testament so starkly oppose the belief system of the average Christian.
     
  22. Bluespade

    Bluespade Banned

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    Isn't this hilarious coming from the so called anarchist?
     
  23. thediplomat2.0

    thediplomat2.0 Banned

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    Well, it is coming from one of the left-wing anarchists on this site.
     
  24. Awryly

    Awryly New Member Past Donor

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    Yes. Economic intergenerational mobility is weak in the US compared to most other Western societies, despite all the hoohaa about "individual freedom and opportunity".

    One can understand that the British do badly on this measure. They are still shackled by their class system. The absence of a class system is no doubt why Denmark and Australia do so well.

    Much as they might proclaim the absence of a class system in the US, and dream up fictional mantras to convince Americans that this is so, it is hard to escape the fact that the American monied classes exist and have no intention of letting the hoi polloi get a sniff of their treasures.
     
  25. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    Americans aren't like Europeans. Go your own way and leave us alone. This constant haranguing, hectoring and harassing isn't going to make us be like you. In fact, it has produced the exact opposite of what you wanted. Increasingly, we are moving away from you.
     

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