A Rich American Destroys The Fiction That Rich People Create The Jobs

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by kilgram, Dec 11, 2011.

  1. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    A rich man saying something completely logic. The rich people doesn't create jobs. The ones who create jobs are the consumers.

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/rich-people-do-not-create-jobs-2011-12
     
  2. camp_steveo

    camp_steveo Well-Known Member

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    When is the last time you were hired by a poor person?
     
  3. stretch351c

    stretch351c New Member

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  4. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    I have never been hired by a rich person either. I have only ever been hired by a corporation, and the people in charge of the hiring tended to be solidly middle class. Have you had different experiences, where Bill Gates(or some other rich person) was randomly walking down the street, and said "you guy over there, I want to hire you as my new personal assistant!!"???? I have never been fortunate enough to have those experiences.
     
  5. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    Only when you dishonestly leave out the fact that the Bush tax cuts made capital gains taxes a flat 15%, and capital gains make up a large percentage of many wealthy peoples incomes. When that is taken into account, that narrative becomes nonsense.


    PS. The top 10% and the top 1% do pay a good amount of taxes. It is the top .01% who pay embarrasingly low rates, and make a mockery of the idea that our system is progressive. It is just that the burden lies on the upper middle class and middle class, and not the poor. If that is progressive to you, ok.


    PPS. One of the things my fellow liberals forget far too often, is that the majority of the top 10% is upper middle class. Those people pay relatively high tax rates. We don't need to raise taxes within the current structure, we need to change the structure so as to add about 5 new tax brackets above the current highest tax bracket.
     
  6. camp_steveo

    camp_steveo Well-Known Member

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    Ok fine.

    Name one corporation owned by a poor person that has ever hired you.

    :rolleyes:
     
  7. Daybreaker

    Daybreaker Well-Known Member

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    But now you're not talking about hiring, you're talking about ownership.
     
  8. stretch351c

    stretch351c New Member

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    Those facts are taken into consideration in the links. And just how is giving the government more of our money, when it has a history of fiscal irresponsibility, going to actually help anything? All raising taxes on the rich does is lower Federal revenue, when the rich move their money to areas where it's taxed less or not at all.
     
  9. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    What does that have to do with anything? The meme constantly parroted by brainwashed unthinking right wingers, is that the rich create all the jobs, therefore we should tax them. Right? Well, now you are making a different argument. If you told me businesses create jobs, therefore we should reduce business taxes, I would be right on board with you. However, the line is the rich create jobs, and that is just idiotic nonsense. They create very few jobs, maybe they will hire a 4th gardener or 3rd nanny if they get a tax cut, but how many people is that going to benefit?


    PS. Corporations are owned by stockholders and bondholders, who are of varying economic backgrounds. Some poor people even own stock. As shocking as that is to hear, for right wingers living in their fantasy world where deranged immoral poor people spend all their time trying to rob them and the rich white upstanding people of this country.
     
  10. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    What am I missing? I looked at your link, and it seems to only be referencing earned income. A statistic that distorts, because so much of the wealthy's income is unearned income(that is just a term used, not something I am using to be hyperbolic). Unearned income is taxed at a different rate(a lower rate). That doesn't seem to be taken into account in your links. Maybe I am just missing it though.
     
  11. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

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    Saying Consumers create jobs is quite logical but, to completely say that is the only piece of the entire puzzle is lazy. The Rich do indeed create jobs but, I believe more so the Middle Class does as it really is rugged individualism that has made Businesses. So my conclusion is that Consumers are only a piece of the equation but, to forget the rest is dooming yourself for Failure.
     
  12. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    Where would they go? Income earned in the US, is taxed in the US. If people want to get wealthy working for Morgan Stanley, they need to work in NYC. There is no where for them to go. There may be no taxes on income, capital gains, etc in the Cayman Islands, but there are also no jobs where you can make the money you want to make either. I know the rich are talented at hiding their money from taxation, but that doesn't mean we should just resign ourselves to that fact and move on.
     
  13. camp_steveo

    camp_steveo Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to get into this too deeply.

    I will just say this.

    I completely disagree with the 'soak the rich', class warfare agenda.

    I believe in free market capitalism, not corporatism.

    We should end the Wall St / Capitol Hill revolving door.
     
  14. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    They really don't. Firms create jobs. And most of the jobs created between 1993 and 2008, something like 65% were created by small and medium sized firms. Most new firms are created by people in the middle class. So not only does the middle class create jobs with their consumption, they do so by starting the vast majority of new businesses in this country. The rich create some jobs, but the number is so small as to be ignorable. Firms of all sizes create jobs. Some rich people work for those firms, but they are not creating the jobs, the firm that created their jobs, is creating the rest of the jobs as well.
     
  15. stretch351c

    stretch351c New Member

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    Money can be moved into ares, such as municipal funds, etc. that are taxed a lower rates, or in some cases, not taxed at all. The problem is not a lack of Federal revenue, the problem is government over spending. The quickest way to lower that would be to go to a zero baseline budget on all government agencies. Every agency would have to justify their spending requirements.
     
  16. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    There is no "soak the rich, class warfare agenda." There is only an agenda to tell the truth. To return income tax rates to historical levels, and to oppose the lies told by right wing propaganda outlets about how many jobs the rich create, which therefore means we cannot tax them.
     
  17. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    I hate this statement. It is nonsense. The problem is both. We need to reign in spending, specifically defense spending and medicare/medicaid spending. And we need to increase revenues. I know right wing propagandists are talented, but you seem like a smart enough person. What could make you accept such clearly illogical nonsense as fact. It would be like saying, a person is overweight, it isn't a problem of eating, it is a problem of not enough exercise. Except obviously the problem is both of those things, and denying one of them exists, means fixing the problem becomes exponentially harder. If a fat person starts exercising, but still eats 10,000 calories a day, they won't lose a whole lot of weight. Similarly if we cut spending, but still don't increase revenue(or vice-verse) we won't solve the impending debt crisis.
     
  18. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why you added fluff but, I expressly pointed out that the Middle Class did create jobs "more so" than the Rich. But this is completely class warfare at its core and not really a discussion of how jobs are created.
     
  19. camp_steveo

    camp_steveo Well-Known Member

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    Here is the truth.

    No matter what the tax rates have been historically, revenues have stayed the same.
     

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  20. frodly

    frodly Well-Known Member

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    No, it is a discussion of how jobs are created. These built in code words, that right wing sheep have been programmed by right wing propaganda to fall back on whenever the debate isn't going their way, add nothing to the debate. Class warfare doesn't mean anything the way it is used by the vast majority of the right wingers in this country. In historical context, it meant stealing ALL a rich persons stuff, and then either killing, exiling, or imprisoning them. In this context it means asking them to pay a slightly higher marginal tax rate. If you cannot see how incredibly stupid that comparison is, I can't imagine how any discourse can be possible on anything more complicated.
     
  21. NetworkCitizen

    NetworkCitizen New Member

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    American consumerism does create jobs....in China.

    Don't progressives have anything to be concerned with other than whether or not poor people can afford the latest cell phone or widescreen? Consumerism must be taken to a halt to save the earth. Invest your energy into ending consumerism instead of destroying the earth. I'm tired of the rat race anyways, just give me my rations.
     
  22. Roelath

    Roelath Well-Known Member

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    Ah, so clearly when the thread itself is posted from a known person who wants Anarchistic Communistic Utopian Society and calls out the Rich for not making jobs I'm not suppose to see it as Class Warfare? It is merely an article supporting his view points and is being used as a tool against the Wealthy (Whoever they consider it to be). So the real point I've already made was that the Middle & Rich classes create jobs along with other puzzles such as Needs/Wants found within Humans. To go any further from that topic is using it as vehicle to wage a class war for the justification of taxes or whatever people wish to enforce.
     
  23. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    business is for producing and consuming goods & services, not creating jobs.
     
  24. kilgram

    kilgram New Member

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    False. Revenues, profits of the rich has been increased in these last years. While middle and low class have lost adquisitive power. That is the reality.
     
  25. Unifier

    Unifier New Member

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    Where does this guy think jobs come from? The job fairy? That must be the case because if poor and middle class people don't create jobs because they have nothing to pay employees with and rich people don't create jobs because they already have all the money and nobody else has any to spend, then who does that leave?
     

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