If a book of the bible is found historically accurate...

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by jedimiller, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. jedimiller

    jedimiller Well-Known Member

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    Can libraries now put it on the HISTORY section or do you crazies still have a problem with it?


    Let's say that the story of NOAH is found to be true. Proven by science. it's history now. Does that still make the story religious for you?

    Why arent the stories of Hercules or Samurai battles considered religious then?


    Once the bible becomes a HISTORIC document (already is, but not accepted in schools) can they now teach that in school? They teach about other things like the egyptians and all their stupid beliefs, why not the bible?

    This will be my last question of this year.
     
  2. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I suppose it depends on what document it is. Noah would probably fit under history, but other books might end up in other places. Personal stories and vague stories would still not go in history. After all, there are books that talk about actual events but in a storytelling fashion. Often, they can be completely true, but it's not written to be history, it's written to be a story, so it still goes in fiction.

    I don't know how libraries in the US works, but the section where fiction books go isn't named fiction, doesn't imply made up, it's something more along the lines of "beautiful literature" (my translation, not necessarily completely accurate). The Song of Songs probably goes better under poetry or "beautiful literature" than history.

    Nor do I know anything about the US school system, but here, children are still taught the Bible, just not as necessary truth. Just as they teach them about Egyptian religions, teach them what it is, not that it's truth.

    The Bible is quite often used as a historic source, we have no reason to believe that it wasn't written when we think it was written. Therefore, regardless of whether they made Jesus up, altered existing stories or actually wrote down what happened, they are still likely to know who was the king and so on, and that is reason to believe that they probably are accurate about those.

    Isn't Hercules considered religion?
     
    jedimiller and (deleted member) like this.
  3. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust Well-Known Member

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    Most myths/legends have an element of truth. I think it's pretty likely that most "characters" of the bible existed as historical figures. Their just wasn't any "super natural" stuff going on. Most of that stuff is just allegorical imo.

    Hercules is a myth/legend because no one actually follows the religion of ancient Greece anymore. I mean he's the son of Zeus, the supreme God. He's ancient Greek's equivalent of Jesus really. Zeus was like the father figure looking down from above, Heracles was his son, demi-god, who walked the Earth doing good deeds and such.

    That's basically what happens to religions. When people believe in them they are the "absolute truth" and then when people stop believing in them they become just "silly stories".
     
  4. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    if, my aunt had yahoos, she'd be my uncle?



    I can play that game too!
     
  5. jedimiller

    jedimiller Well-Known Member

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    +1 rep point. . I'm in the US. here the bible is considered an evil book now. it's not allowed in school or libraries swensson. Even if the bible was found to be 100% accurate it would not be allowed to be used to teach history, know why? because people deny Jesus and his teachings. Pawns of the devil and people who reject a God. jesus was not made up and the story of Noah is part of history. The bible is considered to be a fairytale here in the US these days.
     
  6. FreeWare

    FreeWare Active Member Past Donor

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    It's not reeeeally the religious scripture that's historical documentation, Jedimiller. The mythology in, say, the Pyramid texts is part of the history of the Egyptians, - it doesn't mean that history is part of the texts.

    When I went to school, we also learned about Christians and their stupid beliefs in history. And just like with Egyptian mythologies, the Bible is part of the history of Christianity but history is not part of the Bible.
     
  7. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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    There was a time in the world...before you younger skulls full of mush went to school, that the bible was used by scholars and explorers to glean information about where to dig, where to hunt. What your so called teachers didn't want you to know is that the Bible is full of history, no vague stories, no mythology, none of your other insulting characterizations. And that lack of knowledge is to your detriment and to the benefit of those who manipulate your thinking. you're soooooo easy.
     
  8. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some books of the Bible are tribal myth, some religious poety, some legalistic documents and all history in the sense that, say, the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle is history - i.e. it was written in the past and reflects what some people thought had happened, though not in a form most modern readers would accept. In some cases these examples of history are very interesting indeed: they kept alive the fact of the Assyrian Empire' for instance, when the Assyrians had become non-persons. I think the idea of some sort of imagined 'truth' is not compatible with proper history, since everything is written from a viewpoint and for a purpose, which we need always to take into account. But all honest Biblical scholars understand that anyway, obviously.
     
  9. Bishadi

    Bishadi Banned

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    nice to see you even admitting the 'people' are of aware of the of bible thumpers
    because 'we the people' are actually from a group of forefathers that put the line between religion and state.

    it is why i love 'america' so much; the forefathers held wisdom beyond their time

    YOU deny jesus and his teachings
    and YOU deny 'god' and call him a man

    a man being 'god' is made up

    and the sumarian story of the flood is about thousands of yeears older than any bible
    fairies keep doing the telling; the bible is a book
     
  10. MisLed

    MisLed New Member

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    The sumerian flood is the same flood. When Noah and his family left the ark, they repopulated the earth. That means the sumerians and all other peoples so of course there is going to be a flood narrative in ALL of these peoples' oral and written history.
     
  11. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    Hahahaha.. I'd say that YOU haven't set foot in a library in decades.
     
  12. efjay

    efjay Well-Known Member

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    The bible is just a story book and NOT history...once the last few wackjobs that believe it is real die off we can then relegate the book to where it belongs...recycle bin.
     
  13. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    Babylon was never flooded.... nor Aleppo nor Memphis or Tepe Gobekli.. too many ancient cities to name.. What are you talking about?
     
  14. Ramboner

    Ramboner New Member

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    NO. It belongs in fiction.
     
  15. efjay

    efjay Well-Known Member

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    it is a book of fairytales...so its NON FICTION. Or do you believe that pink flying elephants are real too?
     
  16. Margot

    Margot Account closed, not banned

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    I'd say philosophy and religious studies.
     
  17. FreeWare

    FreeWare Active Member Past Donor

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    Sometimes I'd also wish that religious belief was fiction. But it isn't. It's quite real; there are actually people that believe in this stuff.

    Religious scriptures belong in the category of the mind fiddling with itself, i.e. philosophy and psychology.
     
  18. Sooner28

    Sooner28 New Member

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    Interesting question. If somehow all of the supernatural claims were validated, along with the historical ones, I'd say the Bible would belong in the front of every library... But this is purely hypothetical.
     
  19. FreeWare

    FreeWare Active Member Past Donor

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    Except it would no longer serve as religious scripture but as a source to learn about a religion that once was.

    When a supernatural claim is validated then it is no longer supernatural. So, if you are to validate religious claims then the part of it that makes it religious dies. Verification of claims made on behalf of a religion is the quickest way to eliminate that religion.
     
  20. Swensson

    Swensson Devil's advocate

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    I agree.

    I've worked in a Swedish library and US ones might work differently than ours, but I wouldn't think so in this case.

    The distinction between fiction and non-fiction is not whether it's made up or not, it's what you use it for. As I pointed out earlier for a different reason, it's not called fiction and non-fiction but "beautiful literature" and "expert's literature" (bad translations, but better than "fiction").

    For instance, ancient medicine is to a large extent completely false, but it still goes in non-fiction, because if anyone wanted to study medicine, they might want to find it, whereas a reader looking to read a novel or similar would not find the book helpful.

    On the other hand, Anne Frank's diary is (to my knowledge) completely true, but it's not much of a source for someone studying the subject (unless when combined with other information and other books, which would be written down in a book of it's own, which you can put wherever you want it). However it's quite a nice read, so it goes under fiction.

    On the same basis, any Bible part should go under religion (non-fiction) because it'd become a non-intuitive hassle to run around getting books from different places if you try to research the subject.
     
  21. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    The problem is that the Bible isn't historically accurate.
     
  22. Sooner28

    Sooner28 New Member

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    Yeah that is true. I was just saying if every claim in it were found to be true, then it would basically be something we should ALL take seriously. But I'm not a believer so I have my doubts about the veracity of the good book.
     
  23. FreeWare

    FreeWare Active Member Past Donor

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    Well, that's its strength.
     
  24. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

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    It's strength is being sufficiently malleable and self-contradicting as to mean anything anyone wants to make it mean. The same phrase can be allegorical or not, depending on the criticism.
     
  25. Leffe

    Leffe New Member

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    This is a huge hypothesis in itself.

    Have any parts of the bible been universally accepted as historical fact? Is it liekly that any would be?
     

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