Punishment law over Armenian Genocide denial in France

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by haydar, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. haydar

    haydar Member

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    France will vote a law which will allow to punishment who has thesis that there was not Armenian Genoside.

    Parlementers will vote to bann ideas. Here it is clear that Armenian Genoside is not the same with Jewish Genoside maden by Nazis because It is still in darkness and needs to be searched, calrified. Why France is not going to made an objective commission with the historians with the archieves by discussing on it? Because their target is to get the votes of Armenians. On the other hand parlementaries doesn't have a mission like this, this is a matter of history and historiey is not to proud or to be ashamed, it is to learn to take lessons.

    While all proffesors historians are not totally agreed on it, while there is not any serious research on it, to vote with hundred of bull(*)(*)(*)(*) politicians to bann the ideas, is democracy? Or an act aganist to rashism?

    This is not the first time France made, France made it many times like an unfresh food everytime they heat they used Armenians and Armenian genoside according to France benefits. Now Turkey started to thereat France by boycotting French products and to made the same law in Turkey for Algerian Genoside and other African Nation Genosides. It is like don't judge my genoside i ll not judge yours this is to accept it and very idiotic reaction.

    As conculation France will not accept this law as always they did it they will not risk the French capital in Turkey and the relationships with Turkey. And Armenians will go on to make their community together around a hatred. If you are afraid to loose your unity, community it is the best to create a common enemy, to hold your religion or your history. This will not help to Armenia which is like a sadwich between 2 Turkish Country Azerbaijan and Turkey...

    http://www.todayszaman.com/news-193...-punished-over-genocide-denial-in-france.html
     
  2. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

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    I don't understand this Topic .
    It seems as though you are trying to defend the facts that the Ottoman Empire -- Turkey -- practised genocide of Armenians from 1915 .
    Frankly , anybody denying this despicable chapter of modern history deserves public humiliation .
    There is not one decent independent scholar on the planet who denies that this Genocide occurred .
    What on earth makes you think you know better? Apart from being a Denier like those mad souls who are Holocaust deniers .
     
  3. haydar

    haydar Member

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    In my oppinion it was a genoside, organised by Talat Pasha, Enver Pasha and Teşkilatı Mahsusa Organisation. Am i sure, no! Are you sure? No. Because it is never discussed. Turkey wants to discuss it in an international platform.

    Who is France will punish the ''discussing on Armenian Genoside'': One of the biggest imperial which mandate Africa for many years, made the biggest genosides there. And who will earn when you punish people when they want to argue that there wasn't Armenian Genoside. Armenia is between Turkey and Azerbaijan, and Armenians need both of them to finish their starvation...

    Azeris faced with Genoside in ''Hocali'' the quantity of the people is not matter it is 10 tousand or 1 milion its name is genoside again. Before Armenian Genoside Armenians attacked and burned hundrends, tousands of civil Turks in mosques, milions of Bosnian killed only to be Muslim, in Sudan to non Muslims, in North America to Indians... I don't say these things to reject the Armenian genoside. If you say the all these are not genoside except Armenian Genoside we have to make the description of the genoside. And also the real question will we use this genosides as a political gun? Will characterless politicians or real history people will decide to this?

    You couldn't understand me, i say here again ''THERE ARE INOCENT ARMENIANS KILLED'' if its name is genoside it is GENOSIDE,

    The matter is we can't make a law to block discussing, we have to open archieves we have to discuss and face with the reality, to punish the ideas (France doesn't punish the fashism they will punish people who say my grandparents are not fashist).

    France will not able to decide for this law they don't care to clarify the genosides if it was they would start from theirs.
     
  4. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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    why do bring always Azeris to any ARMENIAN genocide discussion? then , i have started this discussion a week ago:

    http://www.politicalforum.com/weste...le-ages-mindset-over-armenia.html#post4842480
     
  5. haydar

    haydar Member

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    Don't you read what i wrote, you are asking a question which has answer inside the text...
     
  6. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

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    Haydar ,
    Talat and Enver Pasha were both Turkish and Enver was born in Istanbul .
    How then can you absolve the Turkish nation in total from responsibility?
    That argument sounds similar to the the one used by many Germans after the Great War --- no idea of the notion of collective responsibility .
    How do you respond?
     
  7. DinoDino

    DinoDino Active Member

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    This sort of issue should be settled by historical debate, not legislation. Such laws are an affront to the principles of democracy.

    Then again we've seen how much France and Germany care about democracy with the abolition of the democratic process in Greece and Italy recently!

    Repeat after me - Heil Sarkozy! Heil Sarkozy! Heil Merkel!
     
  8. DutchClogCyborg

    DutchClogCyborg New Member

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    The vast majority of people agree the genocide happened by the Ottoman Turks, only a few disagree.


    Sadly such laws must be passed as long as the Turks are unwilling to accept their deeds out of a lame sense of pride. The Greeks / Assyrian / Kurdish ( current) / and Armenian genocides are all equal altough not in scale.
     
  9. DinoDino

    DinoDino Active Member

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    Nonsense. Legislating against opinions is the first step towards totalitarianism. It has no place in Europe. Goes for the holocaust too.
     
  10. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

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    Get him sectioned .
    Crime --- sticking his rear end in his mouth .
    What a clown .
     
  11. DinoDino

    DinoDino Active Member

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    Did you take a wrong turn on your way to the footie forums you belligerent little oik!?
     
  12. _Lisa_

    _Lisa_ New Member

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    12 countries have Holocaust Denial Laws....that is laws forbidding the open and scholarly debate of the WW2 Holocaust. Are you aware of that?
     
  13. litwin

    litwin Well-Known Member

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  14. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

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    Your cheapskate Avatar and accompanying mind set to produce a Red Terror Body Count as your defining slant on life , tells discriminating people everything we need to know .
    To trot out mindless mantras like " Legislating against opinions is the first step towards totalitarianism " is unthinking .
    Legislation against certain types of opinions is the mark of a cultured and sophisticated culture where the implications of Human Rights of all concerned parties are carefully weighed .Life is a bit more subtle and complex than your black and white tub thumping allows .
    Of course legislation and censorship can be abused . But you don't throw the baby out with the bath water .
     
  15. SiliconMagician

    SiliconMagician Banned

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    The above statement is proof that any form of tyranny can be rationalized with enough enough cultural brainwashing.

    (*)(*)(*)(*) subtlety. The world is black and white when it comes to things like Free speech. You either have it or you don't. Protecting unpopular opinions is what Free speech is all about!

    Euro democracy is as tyrannical as any king.
     
  16. janpor

    janpor Well-Known Member

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    Great! :thumbsup:

    That's laughable at best, Haydar. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. :thumbsdown:

    Entirely false.

    Almost everyone agrees, except for Turks of course. Pathetic.

    Ottomans, especially the Turkish ones, were an evil blood-thirsty bunch.


    [​IMG]
     
  17. janpor

    janpor Well-Known Member

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    Why sadly?

    I hear all this talk about free speech? What a load of crap as far as I'm concerned.

    What about values as honesty, righteousness and truth?

    Isn't it the task of a civilized liberal-democracy, like we have in Europe, to protect minorities? We are not some underdeveloped countries like Egypt, Somalia or, yes, even Turkey.

    Y'all know I'm not much of authoratitarion or a Rightie, but incidents like this, clearly shows that our civilization, culture, even our Christian religion are the most developed among humanity. Yes, I put religion in there too -- in Christianity concepts like, "accepting blame", "guilt" and "forgiveness" stand central. I believe this is a good thing.
     
  18. janpor

    janpor Well-Known Member

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  19. Mehmet

    Mehmet New Member

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    [​IMG]

    "leave history to historians."
     
  20. Breath

    Breath Active Member

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    Haha, France certainly knows how to deal with economical crisis.

    Have different opinions, and be forced to pay 45.000€ and get jailed! Sarkozy is such a genius :mrgreen:

    Nobody can change historical facts via political oppression. Where is the freedom of speech, in heart of Europe? Do you get punished if you talk about French history, such as the Algerian Genocide?
     
  21. haydar

    haydar Member

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    Litwin has problem to understand. I see you also have...

    I said many times i am a Turkish beleives there was an Armenian Genoside.

    %50 of European Countries have Genoside in their history.
    The issue the hypocrisy of France...

    Will 70 parlementer decide if there is a Genoside or not? And they will punish people who says my grandparents didn't do Genoside...

    If parlemeteries have a mission like this they have to start from Algerian Genoside.

    If tomorrow 2 milion Turks will make a meeting that there is not Genoside what France will do they will send to Prison 2 milion people.

    Histories are not to be ashamed or to proud, histories to take lessons...
    Also Histories are not gun of the politicians. Specially one of the biggest pig goverments and minister...
     
  22. Breath

    Breath Active Member

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    BTW: _Lisa_, there's a differecence between two is; while Holocaust is well-documented, the so-called Armenian Genocide is disputed issue and at the moment it is being used as a political tool and I don't believe those guys in parliements are interested in debating history. The decision given by French parliement (politicans, whom are no historians) is nothing more than oppression towards Turks in the country. You can't change people's opinions by punishing (paying 450.000€ and getting jailed) them for it.

    http://www.armeniangenocidedebate.com/holocaust-and-armenian-genocide-compared
     
  23. janpor

    janpor Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, maybe Turkey can stop charging €10.000/person abroad for not doing military service in Turkish Army.
     
  24. janpor

    janpor Well-Known Member

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    Breath,...

    I know you don't live on the Moon -- so what's going on my friend? Smoked some hasj or something?

    The Armenian genocide is not disputed at all.

    Not at all.
     
  25. janpor

    janpor Well-Known Member

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    Haydar, stop this utter nonsense already.

    Wikipedia on Algerian Genocide:

     

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