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Thread: Women in combat (but not really) Vol. III

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    Quote Originally Posted by Up On the Governor View Post
    Hand in the cookie jar...



    Sounds like you put a lot of thought into this. Sorry it did not work out for you, but I bet you were not turned off by the fact that you were able to throw a Hot Pocket in your on-board oven.
    Remind me to put a big U next to flight "attitude" on your next checkride, with those stale hot pocket jokes. I was actually giving you an off-hand compliment. The big tough guys are saying women have no place in combat would be the first to toss their cookies if they tried your job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IgnoranceisBliss View Post
    Come on, I'd bet you'd sneak a peak at a platoon of toned grunts jogging by in short short ball hugging silky PT shorts.
    I think you may be onto something here....

    It's not about us grunts not being able to keep our pecker in our pants, it's about women not trying to charm our snake. When women are constantly trying to make pickles our of our love cucumbers, we cannot effectively engage the enemy.

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    For someone like Up on the Governor, who is both female and a combat pilot...
    she would have taken FACT during her undergraduate pilot training. This is before moving on to the T-38 utilized in the fighter/bomber track during the advanced phase of flight training. Basically this test is a way to determine if the person's muscle fitness is adequate to operate high-G aircraft. FACT is an acronym for Fighter Aircrew Conditioning Test. I didn't take the test so I can't speak from experience as I tracked airlift/tanker. I did manage to find the 8 exercise events which are divided into two categories, on the web and I'll share those using Up on the Governor as the "example" of the minimum strength requirements necessary for her job piloting fighter aircraft.

    We'll say Gov weighs 140lbs.

    Strength Test:
    10-15 repetitions (50 total, minimum)
    It will be her body weight (140 lbs.) multiplied by:
    .35 for arm curls = 50 lbs.
    .8 for bench press = 112 lbs.
    .7 for lat pulls = 100 lbs.
    1.6 for leg press = 225 lbs.
    .5 for leg curls = 70 lbs.

    Muscular Endurance Test:
    20 repetitions minimum, 50 repetitions maximum
    Push-ups
    Abdominal crunches
    Leg presses

    Your FACT score is calculated by combining the score of the two tests.

    Any weaknesses that show up in taking the FACT are addressed in FACP...yet another acronym - Fighter Aircrew Conditioning Program.

    FACT holds to the same standards regardless of gender, and it's not too difficult from what I've heard; but I only use it as an example of incorporating a basic minimum standard of physical fitness, necessary to do a particular job, that applies equally to men and women.

    Now as I say, the ground pounders in here know their stuff and can say a female would be a detriment in the long haul and would never be able to meet the physical standards.
    I'll concede that.

    I know what it takes to be a military pilot. It requires an all or nothing commitment on both a mental and physical level. About 1,000 pilot slots open up per year and Air Force Academy graduates take 1/2 of those which leaves 500 slots open to ROTC and OTS qualified candidates applying for them. It is very competitive.

    No you don't have to be built like Rambo to do the job, but it does require processing a lot of information under a great deal of duress...particularly in a combat enviornment that Gov trains and operates in. Clearly she has earned her wings and is no different than any male who has gone through the same process.

    At a remarkably young age, Air Force pilots and crew are given the responsibility of upwards of a $200M piece of taxpayer funded technology.

    It's not always about brute strength on the battlefield...and to infer same is to go the way of the Neanderthal.

    The human brain is the most valuable asset out there...and I believe women are up to the challenges...it's society and culture that has predestined them to be the gentler and fairer sex...

    *end of rant*
    Last edited by Herkdriver; Dec 28 2011 at 11:39 AM.

  4. #14
    Location: About two feet from the center of the universe. Just ask her.
    Posts: 777

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
    The human brain is the most valuable asset out there...and I believe women are up to the challenges...it's society and culture that has predestined them to be the gentler and fairer sex...
    And, again, we come to the same conclusion. Women are capable warrior in their element--which should not be in the infantry. Flinging themsleves off carriers in $200 million jets, riding medevac, rescue or as door gunners, sitting in a silo ready to unleash nuclear armageddon on anyone stupid enough to ask for it, all good-to-go because none of these require the physical requirements demanded of grunts.

    In short, it's not a pointless, petty gender barrier based on a discriminatory thought process. It's based in fact. It may not have always been that way, but the life of a grunt is clearly not something you could reasonable expect the average female to step into with any real chance of success without changing the rules to accomodate the physical differences between the two sexes.

    So, once again, horse beaten. Is it dead yet?

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Herkdriver View Post
    ...it's society and culture that has predestined them to be the gentler and fairer sex...

    *end of rant*
    it takes a lot of conditioning to make them that. have you ever seen two feral women fight? they will do things to each other that no man would ever consider.

    i think it might be a violation of several treaties against unnecessary cruelty to put them in an infantry role.

    What you have whispered to someone behind closed doors will be shouted from the rooftops.
    Do you want to live in Flint or Detroit but don't want the hassle of relocating? Keep voting for Democrats, and they will move to you.

  6. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by talonlm View Post
    And, again, we come to the same conclusion. Women are capable warrior in their element--which should not be in the infantry. Flinging themsleves off carriers in $200 million jets, riding medevac, rescue or as door gunners, sitting in a silo ready to unleash nuclear armageddon on anyone stupid enough to ask for it, all good-to-go because none of these require the physical requirements demanded of grunts.

    In short, it's not a pointless, petty gender barrier based on a discriminatory thought process. It's based in fact. It may not have always been that way, but the life of a grunt is clearly not something you could reasonable expect the average female to step into with any real chance of success without changing the rules to accomodate the physical differences between the two sexes.

    So, once again, horse beaten. Is it dead yet?
    Dinosaur...

    http://www.stylist.co.uk/people/women-on-the-front-line

    ...Women on the front line
    Female war correspondents in Libya and beyond

    This week's historic rebel takeover in the Libyan capital Tripoli after six months of violent conflict has been striking - not least because of the fearless group of female war correspondents leading the live coverage.

    Sky News' Alex Crawford has become something of a sensation on Twitter after riding into Tripoli on a rebel pick-up truck, providing dramatic live broadcasts from a satellite dish powered by a cigarette lighter socket.

    Mother-of-four Crawford later trumped her rivals again by becoming the first television journalist to report live from Colonel Gaddafi’s compound in Tripoli.

    Amid volleys of celebratory gunfire and wearing a protective tin hat, she interviewed euphoric rebels and calmly translated the excitement of the moment that the people of Libya had waited so long for.

    Her landmark coverage was variously described as "a class act," "heroic journalism" and "astonishing" by admirers on Twitter and beyond.

    Kevin Bakhurst, controller of the BBC News channel, tweeted: "All credit to Alex Crawford and her team for her very brave reporting from Tripoli. It looks incredibly dangerous. Many teams on that convoy decided it was too risky/dangerous to continue with rebels – which I also respect."

    But Crawford was not the only female correspondent to front coverage of the chaotic situation in Libya as it unfolded over the past few days and months. The BBC's Orla Guerin, Channel 4's Lindsey Hilsum and Al Jazeera's Zeina Khodr have also been monitoring the conflict closely, with a series of dramatic and daring live reports, in what veteran war correspondent Janine di Giovanni described as "a gang of fantastic women reporters."

    Watch some of the best and most compelling broadcasts from female war correspondents in Libya below. To celebrate the profession in true style, we've also included a clip from Kate Adie, arguably the most famous female war reporter, and her historic broadcast from Tiananmen Square protests in China, 1989...

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Viv View Post
    Dinosaur...
    You're kidding yourself if you think being a war correspondent is anything close to what Infantrymen go through. Bing West, a former Marine and famous author, routinely embeds himself with Infantry patrols in Afghanistan....he's 70 years old. He'd be the first to tell you that correspondents don't go through half of what grunts do. I met him at a dinner a few weeks ago.
    Last edited by IgnoranceisBliss; Dec 28 2011 at 04:40 PM.
    I have no joy in strife,
    Peace is my great desire;
    Yet God forbid I lose my life
    Through fear to face the fire. -Henry Van Dyke

  8. Default :flash:

    Quote Originally Posted by IgnoranceisBliss View Post
    You're kidding yourself if you think being a war correspondent is anything close to what Infantrymen go through. Bing West, a former Marine and famous author, routinely embeds himself with Infantry patrols in Afghanistan....he's 70 years old. He'd be the first to tell you that correspondents don't go through half of what grunts do. I met him at a dinner a few weeks ago.
    why dont' you just call her English while you're at it. (*)(*)(*)(*)! we're all gonna die!
    What you have whispered to someone behind closed doors will be shouted from the rooftops.
    Do you want to live in Flint or Detroit but don't want the hassle of relocating? Keep voting for Democrats, and they will move to you.

  9. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikezila View Post
    why dont' you just call her English while you're at it. (*)(*)(*)(*)! we're all gonna die!
    Ok Mikey, I'll let you girls get on with it

  10. Default

    No one wants to play anymore
    I have no joy in strife,
    Peace is my great desire;
    Yet God forbid I lose my life
    Through fear to face the fire. -Henry Van Dyke

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