Patriot missiles seized in Finland...headed for China!

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by mepal1, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. mepal1

    mepal1 New Member

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  2. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    With all the ships in the U.S. Navy, why anybody has to ship Patriot missiles aboard foreign flagged ships is beyond me. Must be a Republican "cost-cutting" measure.
     
  3. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    America can't protect any of its secrets. Everything is up for sale.
     
  4. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    i wonder if its actually sending to taiwan instead of china. US obvious want to keep a low profile when selling weapons to taiwan.
     
  5. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    again, I ask where is your proof or are you making this up?
     
  6. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    You know, and I think it starts with the corporate bigshots and engineers at Raytheon, General Dynamics, Boeing, McDonnell-Douglas, etc. There's no accountability when there are dollars to be made. Everybody is an entrepeneur.
     
  7. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    What proof? It was the article by-line.

    Want me to take a lie-detector test that this was, in fact, the article by-line? Or do you doubt that the US Navy really has ships than can transport missiles? I got proof for that, too.
     
  8. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    the corporate has everything to lose, especially if they are defense company and pissss off their largest custmer, the US government. earn few millions vs lose bilions dollar worth of contract from government, no CEO is that stupid.
     
  9. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    Patriot missiles don't just get "lost". This is like losing the Indianapolis. I have a tough time keeping track of my car keys, but 69 Patriot missiles and their launchers are big items.
     
  10. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    let me help you , look up at the red highlighted words , taking a lie detector is a bit mellow dramatic don't ya think??
     
  11. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    no an aircraft carrier is a big item, patriot missiles is small item in the overall US military inventory. also no one know its corporate fault or US military fault or germany's fault. it could be ship to another area instead of china, such as taiwan. NO ONE KNOWS. defense company don't sell their weapons to foreign country without approval from US government!!!! violate such rule, those company will pay for it dearly, its a simple risk and benefit factor, and the risk is too great.
     
  12. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    People don't need proof for "must be" statements. They are purely conjectural.

    That being said, the military has turned over a lot of its transport functions to private companies as "cost-saving measures". A thoroughly Republican, free-enterprise "private sector can do it more cheaply" idea. Sorta like the $50 hamburgers that Halliburton used to provide the troops.
     
  13. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    Patriot missiles are quite large, and 69 of them is even larger. And nobody is saying that Raytheon, as a company, was aware. But there are rogue individuals within corporations as we've found out over and over again. Hell, the Manhattan Project had rogues. Our atomic bomb project was an open book for the Russkies.

    All I'm saying is that it took more than negligence to lose track of 69 Patriots.
     
  14. submarinepainter

    submarinepainter Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So made up then okay, I wonder why the OBAMA administration hasn't corrected this , he has had time .
     
  15. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    President Obama cannot get republicans to agree to lower our payroll taxes much less military transport instead of private cost cutting.
     
  16. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    Yeah, it was made up. Aren't ALL opinions?
     
  17. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    It seems most likely to me that this case is under investigation right now- probably by the CIA and the State Department. Should be fairly easy to trace the missiles themselves back to who purchased them, and I believe that these are under export control laws that require State Department permission before they can be resold to any other entity or country. And if these were onloaded in Germany, Germany has fairly rigorous export controls for the supply chain, so I imagine as we read about it, German investigators are knocking on the exporters doors.

    Anyway- if its under investigation, no one is going to say anything until the handcuffs are slapped onto someone.
     
  18. Smartmouthwoman

    Smartmouthwoman Bless your heart Past Donor

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    You're right, LM... he's totally useless. Any president who 'tweets' instead of addressing congress obviously has no clue what's going on. Nor does he care.

    Isn't he still the CIC or has he turned that job over to Valerie Jarrett? Maybe she's the one who arranged for the missile shipment?
     
  19. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    a greedy individual is more believable than corporation selling the secrets. but since it was stop at finland, its not 100% prove that the ship is bound to china. 69 sounds like someone gonna use it. it seem more like its ship to taiwan than china. china has no need for patriots missiles, it has its own anti-missiles etc. if china want latest patriots missile technology, there are much simpler and attract less attention methods. also i didn't find anything regarding the lunchers.
     
  20. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    what compromise for military transport to be funded by taxpayers instead of evil rich private defense contractors?

    let the rich keep more millions that will not work, the american people will have to give him more power.
     
  21. Phoebe Bump

    Phoebe Bump New Member

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    I didn't see anything about launchers either, but a Patriot without a launcher might as well be a bottle rocket.
     
  22. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    well look like my suspicion was right, well most part. it look like the missile is ship to S.korea. I thought was ship to taiwan before.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45774847/ns/world_news-asia_pacific/
     
  23. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

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    So much ado about nothing. Official shipment from Germany (our ally) to South Korea (our ally).
     
  24. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. And I was actually having fun reading all of this, was entertaining.

    You are mistaken there. I operate a Patriot Launcher, not Missiles. But without several other pieces of equipment (Launcher, Command Post, Radar system), the missiles pretty much are nothing but fireworks.

    Did you know that without a warhead, most "missiles" under the old explosives classification sysytem were considered to be "Class C", the same as fireworks?

    I think my main interest in this is in what is not said. What kind of missiles are these specifically? 30 year old 1st Gen PATRIOT? GEM? GEM-T? PAC-3? But the thing is, there is really nothing secret about the missile itself. Without all the other parts of the PATRIOT Missile System, they are pretty worthless.

    And essentially 30 year old technology.

    Phoebe, are you aware of how many "US Flagged Ships" there are in the world? Do you have any idea?

    465.

    Yep, that's it. Panama alone has over 5,000 ships in it's Merchant Marine. We have less then 500.

    And of those 465 ships, 97 are tanker ships, and 77 are passenger ships. In fact, take away all the other ships we have in the Merchant Marine fleet and you have a total of 167 cargo and container ships.

    And if you had even bothered to look, these were not US missiles, these were German missiles. And they are free to do whatever they want to with them, they are their missiles.

    And they were going to South Korea, not China.

    Oh, and if you want to know why so many ships are now registered overseas, call up your local Politician and ask what the taxes are for a PANAMAX ship that is flagged and registered in the US.

    OK, once again, huge faulty logic train here. Has there been any report that the US, Germany, or anybody else is missing PATRIOT missiles? Can you even tell me which type of missiles these are?

    The missiles are not classified. There is really nothing secret about them at all. The PATRIOT technology dates back to the 1960's for goodness sakes!

    As for "corporate responsibility", consider this.

    You are General Motors. You sell 20 1 ton trucks to the nation of Myopia. They then take and arm them and use them against their population.

    Are you responsible? Should you have known what they would do with them? What if the trucks were really sold to the neighboring nation of Hyperopia, who then years later sold them to Myopia. Are you still responsible to keep track of a handfull of things you sold years earlier?

    Of course not. And this is what so often totally disgusts me about our current political climate. People are so fast to try and attack others they do not like, that they will make any kind of accusation if it makes their cause look good.

    And if they are wrong? Well, no apology. No retraction. Ooops, was not an evil corporation or evil insiders who are greedy. Just a legitimate shipment between national governments. But no admission of a mistake.

    This is why long ago I learned to sit back and let others make arses of themselves, so I do not do the same thing.
     
  25. Gator Monroe

    Gator Monroe Banned

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    The Chinese can knock off a Hummer ,they should be able to make launchers from scratch...
     

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