+ Reply to Thread
+ Post New Thread
Page 41 of 49 FirstFirst ... 31373839404142434445 ... LastLast
Results 401 to 410 of 488

Thread: What is a fact?

  1. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxpayer View Post
    The freezing point that someone might conclude from the experiments or the individual measurements? Either may change depending on the precision and uncertainty of the experiment.
    Of course there is a small degree of error when making any measurment. That error is reported when reporting results. 5.01 degrees C (+/- 0.02) or some such thing.

    The point is that the Freezing point of water is independing of the measuring device.

    The freezing point of the water itself does not change .. it is only the error in the measurement that changes.

    The freezing point of water does not change given the same experimental conditions. All experimental conditions leave room for a certain degree of experimantal error. The freezing point of water does not deviate to a degree greater than the error.


  2. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Incorporeal View Post
    If you plant an apple seed, is that seed going to produce cucumbers? The same holds true with the arbitrary numbers on the thermometers. They cannot produce anything but more arbitrary numbers.
    This is wrong and has been proven wrong. You even stated that the measurment of the freezing point of water was independent of the measuring stick (thermometer).

    It does not matter that the numbers on the thermometer were chosen on an arbitrary basis.

    The fact that the numbers on a thermometer were chosen arbitrarily does not make the measurment results using a thermometer arbitrary.

  3. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Incorporeal View Post
    I believe that the Bible is true and real.

    Does the statement above constitute a fact? If 'yes', then what 'fact' is established by that statement? If 'no' then explain why the statement is not a 'fact'.
    Yes.

    It demonstrates that you claim to believe the bible is true.

    A "fact" is simply an assertion that may be true or false. The truth of a fact is demonstrated by the body of evidence proving or disproving it.

    In your statement the only assertion made is "you believe." This is a fact. There is no evidence to prove or disprove the assertion therefore the "truth" of the fact is not known.

  4. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dadoalex View Post
    Yes.

    It demonstrates that you claim to believe the bible is true.

    A "fact" is simply an assertion that may be true or false. The truth of a fact is demonstrated by the body of evidence proving or disproving it.

    In your statement the only assertion made is "you believe." This is a fact. There is no evidence to prove or disprove the assertion therefore the "truth" of the fact is not known.
    My statement itself is the proof of the 'truth'. If you don't believe me (this body), just ask me (this body) and I (this body) will gladly tell you that I (this body) have spoken the 'truth'. If you still don't believe me (this body), then it is up to you to prove that I (this body) have not spoken the 'truth'. This body stands as a witness (evidence) to the 'truth'. Use the infamous polygraph test. Surely you could depend on your scientific equipment to determine the 'truth'? http://davidacamp.com/?p=15
    Last edited by Incorporeal; Feb 26 2012 at 10:17 AM.
    "THOUGHT. The operation of the mind. No one can be punished for his mere thoughts however wicked they may be. Human laws cannot reach them, first, because they are unknown; and, secondly, unless made manifest by some action, they are not injurious to any one; but when they manifest themselves, then the act, which is the consequence, may be punished. Dig. 50 16, 225."

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Giftedone View Post
    This is wrong and has been proven wrong.
    What has been proven wrong? Are you declaring that your current posting is wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Giftedone View Post
    You even stated that the measurment of the freezing point of water was independent of the measuring stick (thermometer).
    And your point? Because all measuring sticks are using arbitrary numbers that are arbitrarily placed on that 'stick' ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Giftedone View Post
    It does not matter that the numbers on the thermometer were chosen on an arbitrary basis.
    There you go admitting again, that the numbers are arbitrary. You are only pulling more dirt upon you while you are already stuck in that hole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Giftedone View Post
    The fact that the numbers on a thermometer were chosen arbitrarily does not make the measurment results using a thermometer arbitrary.
    What else, other than arbitrary numbers, can be produced by a 'stick' that uses 'arbitrary numbers'?
    Last edited by Incorporeal; Feb 26 2012 at 10:29 AM.
    "THOUGHT. The operation of the mind. No one can be punished for his mere thoughts however wicked they may be. Human laws cannot reach them, first, because they are unknown; and, secondly, unless made manifest by some action, they are not injurious to any one; but when they manifest themselves, then the act, which is the consequence, may be punished. Dig. 50 16, 225."

  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Incorporeal View Post

    What else, other than arbitrary numbers, can be produced by a 'stick' that uses 'arbitrary numbers'?
    Math, Chemistry, Physics, Geology .. most of the technology in the world .. and so on.

    Duuuhhhhoooppphhhhhh

  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Incorporeal View Post
    My statement itself is the proof of the 'truth'. If you don't believe me (this body), just ask me (this body) and I (this body) will gladly tell you that I (this body) have spoken the 'truth'. If you still don't believe me (this body), then it is up to you to prove that I (this body) have not spoken the 'truth'. This body stands as a witness (evidence) to the 'truth'. Use the infamous polygraph test. Surely you could depend on your scientific equipment to determine the 'truth'? http://davidacamp.com/?p=15
    Oh good .. anyone spouting any nonsense is truth by your definition.

    I doubt you would pass a polygraph test.

  8. #408

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Giftedone View Post
    The point is that the Freezing point of water is independing of the measuring device. The freezing point of the water itself does not change .. it is only the error in the measurement that changes.

    The freezing point of water does not change given the same experimental conditions. All experimental conditions leave room for a certain degree of experimantal error. The freezing point of water does not deviate to a degree greater than the error.


    Of course it can. That's how folks determine what the error should be. And correct the error later when more folks conduct the experiment under the same conditions and find a different variance. It's even how what we believe to be the freezing point of water changed as we began to understand more about not just our instruments, not just the world around the experiment, but the nature of water itself.

    Yes a longer, narrower thermometer will lead to different results. As will conducting the experiment at a higher altitude (different air pressure) or different distance from the sun (gravity has a role too) or in a seemingly identical but different tube (microscopic variations in the surface of the glass allowing seed crystals to form more readily). But as time progressed we found that there are different purities of water, and those different mixtures have different melting and freezing points. Recently study has shown that water, even in simulation and theoretically pure beyond our ability to experience it in a lab, has a varying melting point depending on the isotopic composition of it's component hydrogen.

    Look, I understand what you're saying. You believe that for a perfect sample of absolutely pure water at exactly the same air pressure, gravity, and made of the same number and type of hydrogen and oxygen atoms... you believe you can predict the exact energy necessary to cause that sample to fully crystallize from a liquid to a solid in whatever container you have at hand. Setting aside chaos theory, many might agree with you. It might even be true. But it hasn't been proven yet. I'm not sure it can be.

    Many people believe science is about knowing truth, understanding the things casting shadows into Plato's cave. I think our guessing at the nature of the universe, our conducting experiment to disprove some of those guesses, and our subsequent relying on the guesses we don't disprove (until we do disprove them) is less about capturing truth and more about avoiding untrue things. Science is very humbling, in that all good scientists must first concede that anything they know may be proven wrong -- as a necessary part of the scientific process.

    And no, I'm not defending the claim that a person's belief changes the outcome of an experiment. Although it might affect their ability to observe, interpret, or conclude consistently with other observers which is why keeping a truly open mind is essential to good science.
    Last edited by Taxpayer; Feb 26 2012 at 12:23 PM.
    Henry George's theories were based on land ownership and how far a business was from a public resource like a mill or waterway. The man lived and died a decade before the model T was produced much less modern transportation and communication. Not only did Henry George never hear of the Internet, he barely lived long enough to see the electric light. Applying the theories of Henry George to modern nations is about as risky as letting the most brilliant caveman design your next airport.

  9. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Giftedone View Post
    Oh good .. anyone spouting any nonsense is truth by your definition.

    I doubt you would pass a polygraph test.
    Make the arrangements. Let's find out. Now you see how really concerned I am about your opinions.

    My "definition"? Not hardly.
    "truth (trth)
    n. pl. truths (trz, trths)
    1. Conformity to fact or actuality.
    2. A statement proven to be or accepted as true.
    3. Sincerity; integrity.
    4. Fidelity to an original or standard.
    5.
    a. Reality; actuality.
    b. often Truth That which is considered to be the supreme reality and to have the ultimate meaning and value of existence."

    Not my 'definition' or my 'definitions'.
    "THOUGHT. The operation of the mind. No one can be punished for his mere thoughts however wicked they may be. Human laws cannot reach them, first, because they are unknown; and, secondly, unless made manifest by some action, they are not injurious to any one; but when they manifest themselves, then the act, which is the consequence, may be punished. Dig. 50 16, 225."

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Giftedone View Post
    Math, Chemistry, Physics, Geology .. most of the technology in the world .. and so on.

    Duuuhhhhoooppphhhhhh
    Now you are promoting the concept that Math, Chemistry, Physics, Geology ..." are all products of 'arbitrary' numbers? Interesting. That would make the results of those named items also arbitrary due to their dependence upon 'arbitrary numbers'.
    "THOUGHT. The operation of the mind. No one can be punished for his mere thoughts however wicked they may be. Human laws cannot reach them, first, because they are unknown; and, secondly, unless made manifest by some action, they are not injurious to any one; but when they manifest themselves, then the act, which is the consequence, may be punished. Dig. 50 16, 225."

+ Reply to Thread
+ Post New Thread
Page 41 of 49 FirstFirst ... 31373839404142434445 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Bookmarks