Concerning the real motives for Israel's constant threats... I for one don't want the US to be maneuvered into war against Iran. Excerpt: http://wartard.blogspot.com/2011/11/why-israel-wants-to-attack-iran.html War **** If Israel attacks Iran, it won't just be because they fear a Shia nuke. Sure, a big red button of win on the Ayatollah's desk would be a credible check on Israeli power and would certainly start an arms race in the Middle East (the Saudi's too would race to centrifuge some yellow cake into something blowable) but this is not what Israel really fears. Besides, Israel has 200+ nukes of its own and is not a signer of the Non-Proliferation Treaty. They know an Iranian nuke would be merely 'theater balancing'. If the Iranians ever used it, Israel would glass them back to the stone age. That's the fun thing about nukes. They're really only useful when they never get used. In fact, nukes are the greatest peace keeping weapons ever invented. And that's a problem for Israeli expansionist right wingers. The real reason Israel wants a war with Iran has little to do with nukes and a whole lot more to do with the current political and military situation in Israel's own back yard. The recent Palestinian UNESCO vote at the UN was pretty much a slap across the face to Israel. Israel knows the rest of the world hates their guts for not making a peace deal with the Palestinians. And the UNESCO vote was no empty gesture either. Since UNESCO was a general assembly vote it could not be vetoed by Israel via AIPAC via the US. Sure, you might think UNESCO is just an educational, scientific and cultural organization but the fun part mixed up in all the fine print is that the vote allows the Palestinians to join the International Criminal Court. So soon, you could have international arrest warrants out for Israeli leaders who like to bust out the white phosphorous after some (*)(*)(*)(*)**** Gazan goat herder launches a home made rocket at a school bus. In truth, Israeli right wingers are getting extra twitchy. The Palestinians have finally realized they cannot win their war with Israel militarily. So they've gotten smart and changed tactics. They're now aiming for a political and moral victory. And that's a war right wing politicians in Israel can't send the mighty IDF to win. In fact, it's a war the Israelis think they might lose. Especially when they themselves score major PR failures like the raid on the Turkish ship Mavi Marmera which seriously pissed off the rest of the world and especially Turkey, a major NATO power in the region. In truth, the Israeli right cannot get what it wants (more land and settlements) through peace and negotiation. Will Israel need US support? Sure. But they won't get that by simply asking. Even if the answer is "no", Netanyahu knows he can just act and drag the Americans in by default. He knows the Iranian response to an attack will be to use every tactic in the playbook once the pew-pew starts and Natanz is burning. One tactic will be mining the shallow waters of the Gulf and, quite possibly, firing Chinese Silkworm missiles at all those fat oil tankers lumbering off the Iranian coast with 40% of seaborne world oil supply in their bellies. Oil prices will shoot through the roof overnight, the brittle American and Euro economies will crash dive and the US will be forced into this thing in a big way. Sure, the Chinese and Russians will be pissed but will they get involved in the shooting and kick start WWIII? Probably not. It'll be more fun for them to just sit back and watch the death spasms of American superpower. I'll admit that I've said before that WWIII is on the table but the Russkis and Chinese will probably just play the waiting game and supply Iran with (*)(*)(*)(*)tons of weaponry while issuing angry protests at the UN and secretly laughing their asses off. That's the smart move. They can win this thing just by sitting back and watching the fireworks. Sure, the world economy will tank but Russian and Chinese populations are better suited to austerity than all the spoiled (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s in Western countries who'll (*)(*)(*)(*) a brick when they can't afford a new flatscreen. Thing is, the Iranian threat to Gulf shipping will be very hard to counter without filling the skies over Iran with drones and aircraft and even then, how do you stop hundreds of Iranian speedboats dropping mines into the Straits of Hormuz? And, more interestingly, how do you pay for it all? Just the theoretical threat of mines in the Gulf is enough to push insurance rates on tankers through the roof. There goes your cheap commute from suburbia! Limited ground invasion? Western boots on the ground in Iran (if it played out like that) could be considered a proxy resource war too far by the Russkis and Chinese, especially since Iran is sitting on the 4th largest oil deposit on the planet. Let's face it, this war is scary as hell.
Nice assessment Margot. Well thought out. Iran does seem to have this situation by the short-and-curlies, even though they are a relatively minor military power. And Israel? Hohoho...looks like the Zionists have painted themselves into a nice corner and can't get out. That's what happens when you allow idiots with a massive chip on their shoulders, and think the world OWES them something...still...to arm themselves. Its my belief that Israel has been counting on the "sympathy vote" in order to continue to get away with anything and everything. I think it must be very frustrating to watch global sentiment wane as it has, and see Americans openly siding with the Palestinians. It must drive them to distraction to see their big dog (America) walking away in disgust. ISRAEL: You were given an opportunity like no other in human history. You were GIVEN a country that was occupied already. You had 2 choices: - Move in and take all of it by force - Move in and SHARE the land with humility I got news for ya Israel...YOU CHOSE POORLY! And now you are faced with a similar choice. You are surrounded by people who hate you. Your choices are: - Humble yourselves and make peace for the sake of your people - Go to war and lose...even if you win the battle Should you choose to go to war...you're on your own this time. And if you win the battle...you will still lose the war because...human sentiment will be against you. Essentially...you'll be right back where you started...shunned by society in general. Have a nice day...and do try to choose WISELY this time...
Exactly; Israel should be routinely launching missiles into civilian areas of everyone around them, on a near daily basis, and then have trible wars amongst themselves, so as to be more "in sync" with their "neighbors". Then later, they can start the stonings, mutilations, etc....
Israel is occupying the West Bank, Golan Heights and Shaaba Farms. http://www.politicalforum.com/religion/226329-ancient-jewish-scrolls-found-afghanistan.html
Let's face it, you and your fellow liberals, don't want war against any islamist thugs who share your own socialist world view.
John.. the Arabs are opposed to Socialism and reliably opposed to communism. If YOU want a war.. then go enlist in the IDF.
Margot lives in a world where apparently Iran has more moral standing than Israel. In this place we call reality, Iran and Israel are about the same monsters.
Israel has NO moral standing.. Iran is a product of decades of US meddling.. But, if Israell wants to attack Iran, they should have at it.
They want to deveop nuclear power and their electrical grid... Are you giving Israel permission to stop infrastructure development in all neighboring countries? Are you willing to go to war over Israeli paranoia?
Ya, and they don't want to develop nukes. And honestly, I could care less if they did, and it's not worth going to war over. But, at least be honest about it. N. Korea developed nukes, and we went to war? Nope, each side have been saber rattling since. I suggest you deal with your own paranoia. Because the fact is, if the Iranians develop nukes, there will be no world war, the middle east will be more serious matter, and dangerous, but there will be no war. But like normal, you acting as if the Iranians are saints with no blood on their hands, highlights your typical dishonesty.
Who claimed they are saints? Iran funds Hamas and Hezbollah.. we fund Israel.. What is the difference?
Knowing human history I hate humans. That is a strange thing to say but I hate us. I don't side with any of these factions in this latest chapter of human suffering. Whether war is waged openly or other means there is still a winner and a loser who suffers the wrath of the victor often with collective punishment.
Well thought out OP and subsequent response from Buzz. The issue with Israel is additionally complex, when considering that while they will obviously not use nuclear weapons, except in the most dire of circumstances, they also know that the West cannot afford for their weapons to fall into the hands of their neighbours. In this regard, the West is already entangled in supporting Israel.
Go tell the fascists in Tehran to stop maneuvering the US into war against Iran, Margot, because that's exactly what will happen if they make the mistake of trying to close the Straits of Hormuz. You can reach "the head of the snake" (to borrow Saudi King Abdullah's words) here: Leader of the Islamic Republic Ayatollah Sayed Ali Khamenei The Office of the Supreme Leader Islamic Republic Street End of Shahid Keshvar Doust Street, Tehran, Islamic Republic of Iran Email: info_leader@leader.ir Twitter: "Call on #Iran leader @khamenei_ir to halt the execution of Sakineh Ashtiani Mohammadi Salutation: Your Excellency
I know.. but the Saudis have been aggressively opposed to any nukes in the ME for 50 years. Everyone's hand is being forced by Israel.
Pure, unadulterated bull(*)(*)(*)(*)... Your anti-Israeli propaganda pump is broken, Margot. It's IRAN that is forcing everyone's hand...
