Ron Paul supporters who will not support the GOP nominee are Liberals (Part 2)

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by squidward, Jan 12, 2012.

  1. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The other GOP candidates are rather statist.
     
  2. Unionguy

    Unionguy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes, but this will need to be a two step process. First, "we the people" will need to take back our "strong" government from the corporations and then we will be able to put some limits to corporate greed.

    I like libertarians because they correctly "see the problem" (unlike your average Neo-Con), now if they would only see the solution.

    The answer to ending "the era of big government for big business interests and return to a government of by and for the people", is not by giving corporations more freedom (more deregulation, more free trade, etc....)

    By getting rid of laws, doesn't make a criminal gang weaker. Same goes for big business. Deregulation and more free trade agreements does not make corporations controllable, it only emboldens them.
     
  3. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    you forgot the part about eliminating privilege.



    you forgot the privilege part, or are you under the impression that a big statist government will eliminate it on your behalf ?
     
  4. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    9,069
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Humans can and will be bought. The only way we can get money out of Washington, along with favoritism, is to strip Washington down to little power. What power it keeps, is not up to interpretation. So it can't be changed or tilted to someone's favor. That is why our founders kept things so basic and simple. You will always have the market battle with someone who has more wealth than you. NOTHING can prevent that side of life. The question is, do you want to deal with the government under their control on top of it? A large state apparatus, under control of the people, is the stuff of fairy tales. WILL NEVER HAPPEN.
     
  5. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    NO, NO, NO !!!!!!
    We just have to elect the "good" statists, and they will use their good statist powers to bring about good for everyone.
     
  6. homerjay_s

    homerjay_s New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,553
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The government is controlled by the corporations. Further empowering the government only further empowers the corporate oligarchy.

    Reducing the power and spending of the government controlled by big business is not giving corporations more freedom. It gives corporations less ability to marginalize small and medium market competition.

    You really have it confused. The legislation and policies we get from a corporate controlled government benefit big business. This is why as we have had an expanding government, we have also realized a further consolidation of economic power into the hands of the big business players.

    The reason Ron Paul gets buried by the corporate media is because the corporate oligarchy is afraid of him. He hasn't taken any big corporate money, nor any PAC money. His campaign is 98% funded by individual donors. If you were right, and big business was opposed to big government, wouldn't big business be backing the small government candidate instead of contributing equally to Romney and Obama?

    Use your brain, you seem to have one.
     
  7. Unionguy

    Unionguy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Nice vision. I guess if your right and a real democracy is just a "fairy tale", then your right, we have to accept whatever big repressive government that's in charge. But weakening our current government only allows another (and perhaps more repressive) government to take over. The way I see it, Corporations and the rich have the most power right now, so our new government will either be a Plutocracy or a Corporatocracy.
     
  8. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    9,069
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    83
    The greatest con sold to working poor was a large state that they could control if they tried hard enough. YOU would sell out for a 100 million, especially if you knew that you would die upon turning it down.

    The greatest con sold to the right was neoconservatism, but that is another thread.
     
  9. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    let me see if I have this straight, weakening government strengthens it ?
     
  10. Unionguy

    Unionguy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Not if we take back our government instead of weakening it. Our democratic government (what's left of it) is the only thing that can stand up to corporations. Corporatist don't care if we weakened their corporate controlled government. They have more then enough money and resources to replace our government with whatever they want.

    If government doesn't have the power to control corporations, who does?

    If large corporations were given the power to replace our weak democracy with a stronger Corporatocracy, the ability to marginalize small and medium market competition would be the least of their problems, they could just dissolve whatever competition they had at will.

    Yeah, using my brain here. Let's try to make this simple for you.

    Once the Nazi party had enough power and control of the Weimar Republic, they just replaced it with their own Fascist state.

    Once the Dark force had enough power in the Old Republic, they just replaced it with the Galactic Empire.

    And once corporations have enough power in our government, they will just replace it with a Corporatocracy. This kind of transition happens all the time. It's how we have gotten some of our best dictatorships around the world. Us, gathering around Ron Paul and helping him weaken and shrink our government is only making it that much easier for the next power to take over.
     
  11. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    reduce the government's ability to hand out privilege to these corps and they must sink or swim on their own merit. No more subsidies, no more special privileges, no more control of the monetary system. The control will happen by default.
     
  12. Unionguy

    Unionguy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Huh?? LOL In a Libertarian world, weakening our government, makes corporations competitors (other corporations) stronger, which somehow weakens larger corporations, making all corporations about medium strong which does nothing to stop them from taking over our weak government. I think that's right.
     
  13. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It has happened already, and your beloved statists have made it happen.
     
  14. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    37,112
    Likes Received:
    9,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    what part of eliminating government privilege for corporations don't you understand ?
     
  15. Unionguy

    Unionguy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Nah...its you free market, free trade corporatist that have allowed this to happen. I hope your corporate master rewards you someday, but I highly doubt it.
     
  16. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    9,069
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Exactly. The state guarantees these people don't fall. They guarantee they don't go to jail when committing a crime. If a rich man knew he could be on the corner asking you for a quarter tomorrow, where in turn you could beat the living crap out of him, he is going to be more prone to show respect. Will never pay you what you want, but the free market was intended for people to only be workers when they are young, or simply don't have the want or ability to start their own business. The reason so many workers can't simply start their own business is the inflation that has occurred over a century thanks to central planning. Add the regulations, taxes and licenses on top and the whole thing is a nightmare. Sure, easy credit masked the problem, but easy credit has gone by the wayside.
     
  17. Unionguy

    Unionguy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sure, weakening the poor and middle class will save our government from take over. You are truly brilliant. Let's crush those unions too, the only ones left fighting corporate rule.
     
  18. Unionguy

    Unionguy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Corporations don't need our government privilege to survive. Thanks to free trade they have over 100 other countries government privilege to rely on.

    As Dr. Otto Octavius once said, "It can't be stopped. It's self-sustaining now."
     
  19. Unionguy

    Unionguy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    With free trade and free movement of capital, Corporations can get their subsidies, special privileges, and control of any other monetary system anywhere in the world. Thank you Libertarianism.
     
  20. Dr. Righteous

    Dr. Righteous Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2010
    Messages:
    10,545
    Likes Received:
    213
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    i see texmaster ran away and hid after I absolutely destroyed him in post 482
     
  21. Unionguy

    Unionguy New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    460
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Your the MAN!! Your corporate masters will be proud.
     
  22. drpepper

    drpepper New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Messages:
    4,979
    Likes Received:
    15
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ha, figures,settignt eh stage to "save" all thsoe **********s who switched from candidiate to candidate because they have no back bone.

    I'm sure you try to find a way to delete all the anti-Romney posts from the far righters.....
     
  23. homerjay_s

    homerjay_s New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,553
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The single most effective way to take back our government is to elect leaders that are not beholden to the corporate interests that you claim to be against. Ron Paul is the only candidate that represents the interests of the American people. I am a proponent of eliminating the influence of money on the electoral and legislative processes. That would also go a long way towards marginalizing the influence of big business on government.

    Again, you are looking at it backwards. Corporations control the government, not the other way around. Both parties are beholden to the same corporate interests. No matter which party is in "power", they both promote the same big government for big business agenda. While they pretend that they are opposing along two ideologies of big business vs. big government. It's a clever rouse deliberately designed to get the American people to pick a side against their own interests.

    That is what big business does, now. They have created a corporatocracy. They use their influence over the government to create favorable tax codes, regulations, and legislation that marginalizes their competition while expanding government spending, of which they are the majority recipient and beneficiary.


    Fascism is the marriage of big business and government. That is exactly what we have in this country now. What makes you think that expanding the powers of the government would combat the power of big business when the government works for big business?

    Corporations have ALL the power in our government. That is why they were able to get bipartisan support to pass Gramm Leach Bliley and create a massive economic bubble that amounted to nothing more than a vast transfer of wealth from the poor and middle classes to multinational corporate interests.

    The more power government has, the more that power will be abused to the advantage of a privileged few.

    You would do well to read Anton Sutton's works Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution and Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler.

    If Soviet Communism and Nazi fascism were diametrically opposed ideologies, why did the same global financial interests create and finance both of them?
     
  24. homerjay_s

    homerjay_s New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    5,553
    Likes Received:
    60
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Reducing the government protection and privilege afforded to big business would actually strengthen the poor and middle classes. It would also help the unions.
     
  25. Til the Last Drop

    Til the Last Drop Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    9,069
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    83
    The one exception of course being reinstating the commerce clause, removing ourselves from the WTO, and putting tariffs on products from nations with lower standards of living. That is one of those things where we will need an amendment so they can't screw us again.
     

Share This Page